MartinL
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Post by MartinL on Jul 5, 2024 20:49:55 GMT
All about Reform taking Tory votes. Expect a lurch to the right in 5 years time, so enjoy it whilst it lasts. Let's hope so. Why? |
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Mark of Carnage
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Jul 5, 2024 21:06:14 GMT
For now I'm just delighted to obliterate the Tories. It's a landslide defeat for them as opposed to a landslide victory for Labour in my view as it feels as though for many people the vote was more about rejecting Tories so hopefully Labour don't take the huge majority as too much of an indication of support... their vote share was only marginally better than that which saw Corbyn beaten in the previous election after all.
It's important that they provide actual change and make a difference now because failure would give an even greater voice to a hard right who got a large vote share and will claim to be hard done by with only 4 seats. Andrew Good points. Would add to that, in 2019 Labour received more than 1/2 a million more votes than they did yesterday. In 2017 Labour had a far higher share of the vote at 40%. Tories took a massive hit but alas were not obliterated. They still have enough MPs to be HM lead oppostion but as BTB suggests, at the next GE should the Tories sort themselves out which is quite likely IMO they will win the next GE. This is what frustrates me the most abut Starmer's labour and why I did not wade in during the campaign. The last thing I wanted was such a big majority because Starmer won't listen to his own party MPs or members or to the people. He doesn't need to. We all knew it was the Tory vote share collapse that would lead to the Labour landslide. Sadly it has nothing to do with the Labour vote share. Corbyn achieved a whopping 40% in 2017 and if you discount the collapse in the SNP (like the Tories they will likely sort themselves by the next GE) then Labour likely got a lower share of the vote in England and Wales yesterday than they did under Corbyn in 2019. As a Labour party member on the left of the party I despair of the purges Starmer is carrying out in the party. I despair of a leader who thinks it is a tough decision not to reverse the 2 child rule and the benefit cap. I despair of a party who will likely not bother to introduce PR so the UK will always have progressive governments and end the dominance of the right in the UK. The Tory vote share was a mere 24% yesterday. That was for several reasons that were each pretty devastating to the tories and are of a sort that are unlikely to reoccur anytime soon. The way the electoral boundaries are,the Conservatives only need around 34% of the vote to win a small majority, while Labour, without a collapse in the Tory vote like we had yesterday, would need around 43% to achieve a similarly small majority. these are insane times where a Labour government should be doing everything it can with the power they have to improves the lives of the people they have been elected to protect. Instead Starmer will be a technocrat, a safe pair of hands for the establishment and do pretty much sod all for the people of this country. I hope I'm wrong and Starmer will do something constructive with the power we have given him. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 21:52:44 GMT
Because I believe in right wing values. |
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Funky Monk
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Post by Funky Monk on Jul 5, 2024 22:03:43 GMT
Reform voters bemoaning FPTP and calling for PR. We had a vote on it- respect democracy and accept the result. The right don’t do irony, do they? We didn't have a vote on it, in fairness, that was for a different, convoluted, system. It is gutting that Labour have rowed back on promising PR, or that you find yourself supportive of a Reform policy despite finding them vile. |
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MartinL
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Post by MartinL on Jul 5, 2024 22:34:42 GMT
Because I believe in right wing values. Which are? |
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MartinL
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Post by MartinL on Jul 5, 2024 22:40:50 GMT
Reform voters bemoaning FPTP and calling for PR. We had a vote on it- respect democracy and accept the result. The right don’t do irony, do they? We didn't have a vote on it, in fairness, that was for a different, convoluted, system. It is gutting that Labour have rowed back on promising PR, or that you find yourself supportive of a Reform policy despite finding them vile. I’ve always been in support of PR or a similar system and it does grate that it would help a party like reform but do I change my mind about it now because it helps a party I detest although FPTP often benefits another party I detest. I always thought that with PR people might be less prone to vote for a more extreme party as a protest if they thought they might get a sniff of power. That probably isn’t the case though |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 22:48:49 GMT
Because I believe in right wing values. Which are? A small state, lower taxation, a greater emphasis on personal responsibility. Greater freedom. Instead we now have a Prime Minister who thinks some women have penises... He is either a liar who doesn't actually believe that, or a degenerate. It's really grim. |
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joffjog
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Post by joffjog on Jul 5, 2024 23:43:06 GMT
A small state, lower taxation, a greater emphasis on personal responsibility. Greater freedom. Instead we now have a Prime Minister who thinks some women have penises... He is either a liar who doesn't actually believe that, or a degenerate. It's really grim. It’s telling you’ve jumped immediately and unprovoked onto tran’s rights. We can agree that Starmer’s stance on the matter has been atrocious, but that is where any agreement will end as you view me a degenerate. We’ve heard all this rhetoric around various queer minorities for decades. It is well within living memory that gay men and lesbian women had the same dangerous labels levelled against them, do you consider these people degenerates also? Or has time and the widening of personal freedoms (which you hold so dear) proved these beliefs false? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 23:48:29 GMT
A small state, lower taxation, a greater emphasis on personal responsibility. Greater freedom. Instead we now have a Prime Minister who thinks some women have penises... He is either a liar who doesn't actually believe that, or a degenerate. It's really grim. It’s telling you’ve jumped immediately and unprovoked onto tran’s rights. We can agree that Starmer’s stance on the matter has been atrocious, but that is where any agreement will end as you view me a degenerate. We’ve heard all this rhetoric around various queer minorities for decades. It is well within living memory that gay men and lesbian women had the same dangerous labels levelled against them, do you consider these people degenerates also? Or has time and the widening of personal freedoms (which you hold so dear) proved these beliefs false? Men pretending to be women and invading their personal spaces isn't remotely the same as homosexuality. Being gay doesn't affect anyone else. One is a sexual orientation, the other an identy - a pure fantasy not based in any reality. |
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Funky Monk
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Post by Funky Monk on Jul 6, 2024 0:57:06 GMT
Gone for the double down and then some? Interesting approach.
It's just such a nonsense that you've boiled down such a complex issue to this daft toilet fear. If I wanted to harm a woman in a woman's bathroom, I'd just walk in there and do it.
Why would I put in all the extra steps? Why would I willingly choose to be ostracised, bullied, and suffer all the mental health issues, professional issues, societal issues, and be labelled a degenerate just for the sole purpose of doing something I could have done just as easily before?
I get it can seem weird, but people are just that, people. Only a small proportion (not me, I'm a top shagger, but for most others...) of people you meet in life will it ever matter what their genitals look like, and choosing to direct that feel to hating people you've never interacted with over a toilet falsehood is just a bit sad.
Sorry, didn't mean to go on, but qué será será.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2024 1:06:37 GMT
Gone for the double down and then some? Interesting approach. It's just such a nonsense that you've boiled down such a complex issue to this daft toilet fear. If I wanted to harm a woman in a woman's bathroom, I'd just walk in there and do it. Why would I put in all the extra steps? Why would I willingly choose to be ostracised, bullied, and suffer all the mental health issues, professional issues, societal issues, and be labelled a degenerate just for the sole purpose of doing something I could have done just as easily before? I get it can seem weird, but people are just that, people. Only a small proportion (not me, I'm a top shagger, but for most others...) of people you meet in life will it ever matter what their genitals look like, and choosing to direct that feel to hating people you've never interacted with over a toilet falsehood is just a bit sad. Sorry, didn't mean to go on, but qué será será. Qué será será indeed. Until these men start competing in women's sports, completing their sentences in women's prisons, mandating speech.. It's far from a nonsense. |
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shubs
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Post by shubs on Jul 6, 2024 7:05:05 GMT
Why is it that the media have such an obsession with that grinning racist in a suit? Correct me if I am wrong but Reform and the Greens both won 4 seats. However I don’t see the latter being mentioned every 30 seconds.
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joffjog
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Post by joffjog on Jul 6, 2024 7:34:32 GMT
It’s telling you’ve jumped immediately and unprovoked onto tran’s rights. We can agree that Starmer’s stance on the matter has been atrocious, but that is where any agreement will end as you view me a degenerate. We’ve heard all this rhetoric around various queer minorities for decades. It is well within living memory that gay men and lesbian women had the same dangerous labels levelled against them, do you consider these people degenerates also? Or has time and the widening of personal freedoms (which you hold so dear) proved these beliefs false? Men pretending to be women and invading their personal spaces isn't remotely the same as homosexuality. Being gay doesn't affect anyone else. One is a sexual orientation, the other an identy - a pure fantasy not based in any reality. Interesting… do you not consider your sexual orientation a part of your identity? I know I do and an important part, at that. And being homosexual was certainly considered to affect others in the heyday of wide spread, restrictive, societal homophobia. The same vicious lies about threats to women, children and the irrevocable corruption of our way of life were spouted with certainty then too. Being trans is not someone’s entire identity, rather a thread woven with others to create REAL, WHOLE, NUANCED individuals despite ignorant/uneducated/reactionary/bigoted (delete as appropriate) people trying to boil them down to a single marker of wrongness. There are certainly conversations to be had, especially around sport, but those conversations cannot start when one side think the other simply shouldn’t exist. Trans people are not new, they have been co-existing with you way before the media alerted you to the fact and led you down such a hateful path. |
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MartinL
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Post by MartinL on Jul 6, 2024 7:41:15 GMT
A small state, lower taxation, a greater emphasis on personal responsibility. Greater freedom. Instead we now have a Prime Minister who thinks some women have penises... He is either a liar who doesn't actually believe that, or a degenerate. It's really grim. And there we have it. Try to sound intelligent then throw in some sort of hatred toward anyone different from you. You are all like clones. And personal responsibility? Do me a favour. I don’t see many from the last government taking much responsibility for their actions and Farage certainly does not. It’s always, always someone or something else’s fault. |
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Andrewlang
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Post by Andrewlang on Jul 6, 2024 10:02:10 GMT
Decent enough start for Labour. Scrapping the cruel and costly failed Rwanda policy is a good start, if a little bit of a low hanging win.
Packing his cabinet with people who seem to be there because they're subject matter experts rather than because they're cozy with the prime minister is great to see.
Wes Streeting already has talks planned for next week with junior doctors for example.
Andrew
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