General Election 2024

[saltyvinegar]

Oct 4, 2024 9:21:18 GMT cambsno said:

There are frankly far too many pensioners who do not need that extra payment. This is the generation that will have the best standard of living of any of us, who benefitted from cheap housing and are often sitting in houses worth a lot of money, add in a number may be on final salary pensions etc... and at times it is hard to feel much sympathy. Not forgetting this is the generation that (according to the stats) most likely voted for Brexit and the pain the rest of us will suffer over the next 20 or so years as a result!

I think the own goal of the winter allowance amendment was the bar was set too low to means test it, as in the pension credit limit. This was probably done for simplicity as complicated means tested systems can cost more to administrate than the potential savings. One positive outcome is that is has encouraged more people to claim the actual pension credit who are entitled to it but were not aware & this will probably hoover up all cash the Treasury were hoping to save

I do agree that a significant portion of the baby boomer generation are asset wealthy enough to not require the WFA but any legislation to amend pensioners rights is always going to be a political hot potato

[texaspete]

Pensioners have seen the state pension increases by 19% in just two years and - despite the removal of the WFP - will still have a lot more money from the government than last year.

I understand the annoyance at seeing £200 of that big increase taken away but the pretence this will force some to choose between eating and heating really grates, especially given how much non-pensioners have been screwed over the last few years (e.g. I am paying £6,000 per year more on my mortgage than pre-Truss, have had to swallow a hefty real pay cut, the Tory income tax threshold freeze has left me paying a lot more tax than otherwise - and I’m probably one of the luckier ones!)

[barry]

Oct 6, 2024 19:52:17 GMT texaspete said:

Pensioners have seen the state pension increases by 19% in just two years and - despite the removal of the WFP - will still have a lot more money from the government than last year.

I understand the annoyance at seeing £200 of that big increase taken away but the pretence this will force some to choose between eating and heating really grates, especially given how much non-pensioners have been screwed over the last few years (e.g. I am paying £6,000 per year more on my mortgage than pre-Truss, have had to swallow a hefty real pay cut, the Tory income tax threshold freeze has left me paying a lot more tax than otherwise - and I’m probably one of the luckier ones!)

You know the pension increase covers the "cost of living crisis" and inflation, to keep them in the same position as everyone else I assume.  Obviously not, or you just hate older people.  You never know, you might live to be one one day.

[lesj]

He is obviously not aware that the state pension is just £221.20 per week( per single person).* Try living on that unless you are lucky enough to have a private pension. There are a lot of pensioners that don't & still have to pay rent out of that. Being able to run a car on that is just out of the question

I happen to be one of the lucky ones that managed to buy my property( so no rent to pay) & have a small private pension

* I don't know what it is for a couple, but certainly not double.

[Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage]

Not everyone gets an inflationary pay rise, certainly not under the previous government unless you were a pensioner. Seems a lot of hot air over £4 a week.

I don't think having a home or private pension should be seen as lucky. If you've worked all your life it would be irresponsible not to secure at least one of those things. If for whatever reason you've been unable to do that we've rightfully got a benefits system to support those people but it doesn't seem logical to give it to everyone.

[texaspete]

Oct 6, 2024 20:48:03 GMT barry said:

Oct 6, 2024 19:52:17 GMT texaspete said:

Pensioners have seen the state pension increases by 19% in just two years and - despite the removal of the WFP - will still have a lot more money from the government than last year.

I understand the annoyance at seeing £200 of that big increase taken away but the pretence this will force some to choose between eating and heating really grates, especially given how much non-pensioners have been screwed over the last few years (e.g. I am paying £6,000 per year more on my mortgage than pre-Truss, have had to swallow a hefty real pay cut, the Tory income tax threshold freeze has left me paying a lot more tax than otherwise - and I’m probably one of the luckier ones!)

You know the pension increase covers the "cost of living crisis" and inflation, to keep them in the same position as everyone else I assume.  Obviously not, or you just hate older people.  You never know, you might live to be one one day.

You would be quite wrong in that thinking - pensioners have seen their real income go up while everyone else has got a lot poorer.

A pensioner couple household have seen their state pension increase by £3,600 in just two years. That puts the loss of a £200 payment in context. Pointing that out does not = “you just hate old people”

[lesj]

"A pensioner couple household have seen their state pension increase by £3,600 in just two years"


I challenge you to give me proof of that , as I think you are way out. Half of that I would think would be nearer the mark.

[texaspete]

Oct 7, 2024 8:07:54 GMT lesj said:

"A pensioner couple household have seen their state pension increase by £3,600 in just two years"


I challenge you to give me proof of that , as I think you are way out. Half of that I would think would be nearer the mark.

The new state pension in 2022/23 was £185.15 per week or £370.30 per week for a pensioner couple household.

The new state pension in 2024/25 is £221.20 per week or £442.40 per week for a pensioner couple household.

£442.40 minus £370.30 is an increase of £72.10 per week or £3,760 per year.

Take away the loss of the £200 Winter Fuel Payment and the state pension for a pensioner couple household is £3,560 per year higher than it was two years ago

[lesj]

I was obviously unaware that a couples pension is double that of a single( it never used to be)

But I think it must me taken into account that any income per person over £12,570 per year is taxable @ 20% of which if you have a private income will be deducted from that every month


Anyway as you say, £3.560 per couple over 2 years = an average of £890per year per person = just £17.11p per person per week( before tax)

Surely most working people had a rise of more than £17.11p per week

[texaspete]

Oct 7, 2024 9:13:16 GMT lesj said:

I was obviously unaware that a couples pension is double that of a single( it never used to be)

But I think it must me taken into account that any income per person over £12,570 per year is taxable @ 20% of which if you have a private income will be deducted from that every month


Anyway as you say, £3.560 per couple over 2 years = an average of £890per year per person = just £17.11p per person per week( before tax)

Surely most working people had a rise of more than £17.11p per week

(1) Anyone who has a mortgage has seen a massive decrease in their net income, probably true of those who rent too

(2) Pensioners have other sources of income than the state pension and the Winter Fuel Payment and a large proportion own their home outright meaning they have far fewer outgoings (paying for my - modest 2.5-bed terrace on a council estate - house eats up 40% of my net income).

[lesj]

"Pensioners have other sources of income than the state pension and the Winter Fuel Payment "


What other sources of income apart from perhaps a private pension ( of which people have paid in for years for)

Also when I had a mortgage interest rates were high ( admittedly not as high as now)

There are also many pensioners due to bringing up a family and often on a poor wage have been unable to buy their own property or able to afford a private pension . So their only source of income is the state pension of which they have to pay rent out of

[texaspete]

Oct 7, 2024 10:01:58 GMT lesj said:

What other sources of income apart from perhaps a private pension ( of which people have paid in for years for)

Most will have a private pension and - if not - will be eligible for Pension Credit, many - especially older pensioners - will also be eligible for Attendance Allowance and other state benefits.

Oct 7, 2024 10:01:58 GMT lesj said:

Also when I had a mortgage interest rates were high ( admittedly not as high as now)

Housing is far more expensive than it was, pensioners enjoyed huge tax relief on the interest payments on those far smaller mortgage payments

Oct 7, 2024 10:01:58 GMT lesj said:

There are also many pensioners due to bringing up a family and often on a poor wage have been unable to buy there own property or able to afford a private pension . So their only source of income is the state pension of which they have to pay rent out of

Low-income pensioners with housing costs would be in receipt of Pension Credit and receiving Housing Benefit/Universal Credit to support them with their housing costs. They will also continue to get the Winter Fuel Payment.

Hopefully the government will be able to use some of the savings from means-testing the Winter Fuel Payment to make support for poorer pensioners more generous and avoid further cuts to the NHS and social care services they rely on.

[lesj]

"Also when I had a mortgage interest rates were high ( admittedly not as high as now)



Housing is far more expensive than it was, pensioners enjoyed huge tax relief on the interest payments on those far smaller mortgage payments"




Housing is more expensive than it was because wages are much higher than they were 20 -30 years ago

So mortgages were properly taking just as high a % of my wages as they are now.

Also , what I don't expect you to know is that tax relief that was given then they start to take back out of your pension

The pension is worded x amount less x amount deducted for contracted out. so that tax relief is not given it's only lent


P.s don't you have any work to do ?

I don't as I am a rich pensioner

[texaspete]

I’m taking about MIRAS not pension tax relief.

House prices have increased far, far more than wages have. For example, the ratio between average house prices & average full-time wages has more than doubled since 1997. As is very visible if you compare the housing situation of young families today with how their parents were housed at the same age.

[cambsno]

Oct 7, 2024 10:01:58 GMT lesj said:

"Pensioners have other sources of income than the state pension and the Winter Fuel Payment "


What other sources of income apart from perhaps a private pension ( of which people have paid in for years for)

Also when I had a mortgage interest rates were high ( admittedly not as high as now)

There are also many pensioners due to bringing up a family and often on a poor wage have been unable to buy their own property or able to afford a private pension . So their only source of income is the state pension of which they have to pay rent out of

But back in say 1980, you could buy a 3 bed family home at 3x the average wage. 3 bed houses around Cambridge are now 300-500k, mine is 375k. If you are on 35k a year that is 10x your salary.

Anyone who didn't put into a pension etc... well sorry, why should the rest of us keep working hard, going without because they didn't.

My nan had a small private pension (tiny, 10 years ago but 100 a month or so), state pension and at 90 was living in a bungalow for old people, warden on the block etc... By the time all her benefits/pension was added up, rent paid etc... she had enough to live on. Ok, she was not out buying lobster but would go on a shop and buy what she wanted, she never worried about putting the heating on or anything like that.

It does bug me - I could go out and spend all my hard earned on beer and loose women and holidays, get the council to house me, live on pension and when I get ill the government pays it all. What is likely to happen is that I will get ill, my house will not be left to my kids as it will need to be sold to pay for care and then my kids get nothing. Sod that - if it comes to it I will stick a bag on my head so they have at least something to help them out