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Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 29, 2011 12:45:33 GMT
Jerry, it would still appear misleading, at best, to say CRB checks are "largely pointless".
I can't help but feel you're being a little sanguine in suggesting there is a "simple solution" which just involves 'sitting down face to face and talking'. I think they may have tried that.
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jun 29, 2011 13:36:52 GMT
Russ - the context of my original point on CRB checks is the heart of this - if a crime has not been committed, then a CRB check won't stop it from happening. To clarify, I don't think it is pointless to check CRB for members of staff, of course not. That is sensible practise. But, CRB is pointless if no crime has been committed yet.
Sadly, nothing can tell you (apart from a dose of gut feeling which is hit and miss) whether somebody is a bad apple or not.
As to the simple solution - well, perhaps you're right. It does generally work in the corporate world, but I suppose when it doesn't we just end up in litigation with the other party. The aim of dialogue is to avoid going to court. My other point about having had it when the other party goes bust is perhaps more relevant in the case of the teachers. If UK plc goes down, there is not much point to their strikes. Ditto in Greece today.
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Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,574
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Jun 29, 2011 16:55:12 GMT
If a customer goes bust however, you've had it. No wonga, and a serious hole in your expected earnings. This scenario sends businesses down constantly, when they've done nothing wrong themselves. Similarly if UK plc goes bust then we've all had it. Who would pay our precious pensions then? We are 6th largest economy in the world. We are a very very very rich country. Depends on way you look at the figures but arguably we average £140,000 in wealth per adult in the UK. But doubt you personally have that much wealth and thats because hey ho with 40% wealth concentrated with 1% of the adult population it sorta makes sense why we struggling and can't afford to pay for decent pension for all. Bless their cotton socks the uber rich wouldn't want to lose out. Jerry, I bet the uber rich are very grateful for your continuing support. Its not really a matter of what we can afford. We can easily afford a decent pension for all our citizens. The Hutton report states nowhere we can't afford pensions. Surprisingly it actually states that if we leave it as is the pension burden will decrease over time despite ageing population so at end of the day it comes down to whether you want to support the people of your country to live comfortably in old age or you have some twisted idea that things are only good when the people of your country suffer. Well you can take your pain and shove it up your arse! I love my country and like most of us I'm not one of the 1% shafting the other 99%. Do the maths. Its daft bat thinking to support the parasites that want your own people to suffer just so they can live the high life. Fair enough if your a rich bastard then be a bastard if thats your bag otherwise support your own theres so so much more of us than them. If it helps think of the 1% as boro and the 99% as Us. And by the way, the teachers keep reminding the government their pension pot is in the black so why should they be expected to take the hit. The tories are out to flip over the people of this country. They have shown whenever they govern they have never cared for the people of this country. The trickle down argument about wealth load of bollocks otherwise why has the wealth remained with them regardless of what happens. Decent people contribute to the common good they don't take take takel from those less fortunate than themselves. The rich in this country shown themselves to be bunch of parasites. As a wealthy country we can easily afford a decent standard of living for older people whether they in private or public sector.
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Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 29, 2011 17:06:31 GMT
Well said Mark.
Those in power consistently engage in distraction and subversion, taking our attention away from the fundamental facts. It's an attempt to maintain the status quo, which is characterised by a huge imbalance in the distribution of wealth.
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Post by warren62 on Jun 29, 2011 20:51:23 GMT
Who are 'academia' and why would they be less informed than you? So your real world is in a "major plc with a global presence" - sounds like cliched jargon to me. You haven't answered the question though: why aren't teachers in the 'real world'? . You're trying to assert that the majority of public sector workers are just 'drifting along'. But I guess you and all your colleagues are the backbone of this nation, working your little socks off. What an absurd skewing of the debate. We're not talking about layabout public sector workers, we're talking about a huge group of hard-working people who do vitally important jobs. Teaching is an enormously important profession. You (mis)quoted an old saying as if it had some relevance to the debate. I fail to see what it adds, but perhaps you could elucidate on the following: those that can can those who can't teach...? The teaching and education profession- did I say they were less informed than me? Whether you think it a cliche is irrelevant it is a factual statement of my company and its trading markets . I do not believe teachers and public sector do understand the problems the private sector has been dealing with since 2008 , they are just feeling the effects now as a result of government policy to attempt salvage fiancial stabilty for future generations - seems very similiar to the policy of CUFC right now . generalised as we cannot afford the past we have to change to protect the future Why is it skewing? I base my statement on my experience of 8 years working in local government . Recently bumped into an ex colleague who had retuired after many years service i.e full pension . spent the last 20 years since I left at same desk same role as an example - left because the was a flat structure and no advancement and had had enough - his words. but an example n.b sample size one individual. Where did I say it wasn't and they were not? And note the strike is a public sector strike tomorrow not just teachers although this thread is titled teachers strike It was meant to be humourous but bypassed you it seems. So Russ what do you do? Also what are your views on my statement to the effect that private sector management could within one year radically improve cost management and efficiency within the public sector. You commented against everything else so i guess you are in agreement on this point at least.
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Post by Hugh Jerection on Jun 29, 2011 21:24:47 GMT
Mark is completely correct.
Interesting quotes from the Hutton Report:
"The net cost of paying public sector pensions in 2009/10 was a little under £4 billion. The cost of providing tax relief to the one per cent of those earning more than £150,000 is more than twice as much."
private pension funds received subsidy of £37.6bn
'public sector pension contributions will go down from 1.9% of GDP to 1.4% by 2060'
It goes on - however I believe the next quote sums up the reason behind the Conservatives reasoning for changes to public sector pensions -
'public sector pensions are the biggest barrier to further privatisation and outsourcing of public services'
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Post by Hugh Jerection on Jun 29, 2011 21:36:51 GMT
Also what are your views on my statement to the effect that private sector management could within one year radically improve cost management and efficiency within the public sector. You commented against everything else so i guess you are in agreement on this point at least. [/quote]
Excellent point, You might be right, however I work for the Public Sector and 4 out of the 5 Managers (In 4 years!) I have had, left to go work in the Private Sector, earning on average 10k more than they were on, for the same job, hence why they left. Would your managers come and work in the Public sector. I am guessing they wouldn't else they would already be working there.
After working in both Private Sector for 10 years and Public for 4 years, I can honestly say that I work twice as hard in my job now than I ever did working in the 'real world' and quite honestly can't wait to get out of it. 6 months until I finish my qualifications and I'm going to work with my colleagues and earn that extra 10k a year! Too much pressure and crap from the public, who seem to always be experts.
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Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 30, 2011 11:11:57 GMT
The teaching and education profession- did I say they were less informed than me?You seem to be speaking as if you know the full implications of the situation, but suggest they don't know what's going on. It was meant to be humourous but bypassed you it seems.I got the humour - but the unintended part (those who can can), hence the picture. So Russ what do you do?I'm a sports journalist at a company with a 'global presence'
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Post by Actually Valid Username on Jun 30, 2011 11:23:53 GMT
What's more worrying is Michael Gove's reforms to the education system, he wants to introduce a fixed qualification so every student, whether they are gifted or struggling, has to do the most academic topics, completely removing arts and sports funding.
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Lurid
Reserve team star
Unita in conatu
Posts: 5,045
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Post by Lurid on Jun 30, 2011 13:15:13 GMT
Gove is a total melon farmer that would farm his own grand melon to farm the country over for the sake of his party and career.
I fear that the 'academic' focus will remove technical and vocational qualifications that would suit many people looking for a real job after it rather than a qualification towards a degree.
In Germany teachers are respected more than business and industry leaders. When TB was contracted as prime minister he promised 'education, education, education'. If only that had been true. Sure the economy grew under education, health, health, but I really feel it was a lost opportunity. I'd even have settled for education, education, health.
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bean
On trial
Posts: 288
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Post by bean on Jul 1, 2011 21:52:36 GMT
As far as I can see we are the first generation where Parliament is almost completely full of career politicians.
No matter how many times they say it, they do not understand what it's like for the majority of people in the country.
To paraphrase Kipling, "what do they know of politics, who only politics know".
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