Lorry driver shortage

[lesj]

According to what I have heard, there is a serious lorry driver shortage, meaning a delay in getting goods into the shops

In the past when the country has been in similar situations with other vital services, the Army has been called in to help .

Why as yet have the Army not been called in on this occasion ?

[MartinL]

There’s a shortage of 100,000 drivers- the army has 2000. It’s not going to make a lot of difference.

[richmead]

The problem with hgv driving as a profession, much like the basic jobs in the construction industry, is that they’ve over qualified it to try and make it more professional. These industries take people that weren’t good at school and it is something more practical people are good at. Now they’ve turned it into something that requires regular classroom activity (even if it means just sitting there with no tests) and this puts people off. It also discourages older people from staying on into semi retirement.
Average age of Hgv drivers in this country is 58years old. This isn’t a problem that’s going away without a huge shift in thinking.

Anyway, the shortage isn’t keeping essentials from shelves just yet and I doubt it will. It’s driving wages up which is a good thing to hopefully encourage more people in to what is an undesirable profession.

[Mark of Carnage]

Not going to be easy to solve this but it would be a start to raise wages substantially and improve working conditions to make it an attractive occupation.

It would also help if the government listed HGV workers as skilled workers to attract foreign drivers so they could avoid the new immigration points system and get fast tracked work visas. I can't imagine it is attractive to foreign drivers to have to jump through so many hoops and then have to wait 6 months to get a UK Class 1 HGV licence. They need to be paid well while working on that or it isn't worth their while coming here.

When you look at the home office list of skilled workers that includes ballet dancers, artists, beauty salon managers, disc jockeys, aerobics and pilates instructors and florists, you have to wonder why HGV driver is not listed. It seems the government isn't that bothered about not having enough HGV drivers in the country but it evidently thinks it would be a disaster if we ran out of ballerinas!

Could always introduce freedom of movement between the UK and other European states but that isn't what the British people want so I guess as long as we don't have a ballerina shortage all's well.

[Andrewlang]

Don't you dare take away my ballerinas Boris!

Andrew

[MartinL]

They’re all working in cyber now

[richmead]

The answer isn’t “get more drivers from abroad”. Just a sticking plaster again. Subsidise training and tests (or even make it free) for British workers. Get rid of the pointless CPC 7hr courses each year. Stop threatening drivers with huge fines if they make mistakes with regards to hours/tacos.

[imp566]

Radical and probably not a viable proposition due to the existing load, but we could encourage companies to utilise the rail network like they used to, transporting goods mainly overnight to take advantage of the low usage in the quiet hours,

[yorkie]

Aug 30, 2021 19:57:59 GMT imp566 said:

Radical and probably not a viable proposition due to the existing load, but we could encourage companies to utilise the rail network like they used to, transporting goods mainly overnight to take advantage of the low usage in the quiet hours,

Are you aware that there are many hundreds of containers that are moved from the ports across East Anglia on a daily basis.

Some of these may well be destined for say the midlands. The question is, when they are off loaded they need HGV drivers to then move them on to their destination, which could be several miles away.

This is just one example. Not all containers that come into the UK are picked up and then driven along the A14, although there are still far too many.

To make it work, even if say UK manufacturers wanted to move vehicles from their factories to all parts of this country the infrastructure is not available by the rail network. A good idea in principle but a long way to go.

[Troy Cadogan]

There is already infrastructure from the UK deep sea ports to move containers by train to the midlands and north - so there really isn't a need to move factories closer but like its been said, you still need to move the final mile via truck.

With regards to the driver shortage, whilst it is true that bringing the EU drivers back is a sticking plaster, it is one that is required now.

I have a senior role in Supply Chain, and the triple whammy of an aging workforce not being adequately replaced, delayed class 1 tests due to COVID and an EU workforce who have left the UK and not returned has left a huge gap.

Major 3rd party logistics providers have managed to lock themselves in a bidding war with each other and supermarkets, paying drivers higher wages and signing on fees but really robbing Peter to pay Paul. You really could end up with a situation where the Tesco's of this world ring fence vehicles by paying stupid money and can't the supply in to their stores because they've broken their suppliers supply chains.

Taco rules are really important, and to be honest, if a business or individual can't organise themselves to be legally compliant, then they shouldn't operate machines that can kill people.

Final point is that there are still too many wasted miles on empty trailers - I'm trying to build networks where my transport companies deliver finished goods and collect empty equipment to come to me and get paid by me for the delivery and my supplier for the equipment - but why am I having to do the networking and thinking for my transport companies?

[Mark of Carnage]

I was listening to More or Less on R4 earlier today and they were saying the 100k shortfall number was 60k prior to Brexit and had been that around that figure for quite a while. They also said the ONS released figures the other day showing that there were 54k EEA nationals with HGV licences working in the UK prior to Brexit and that number is now down to 35k. They also said that covid caused a massive backlog of 25k new drivers that were unable to take their exams. So overall the shortfall rose by 19k for brexit and 25k for covid bringing the total shortfall to just over 100k.

One would expect the shortfall to reduce as the 25k backlog of new drivers is addressed now that we are no longer (fingers crossed) having lockdowns etc. but the loss of 19k following Brexit appears to be a predicament of our own making and would be stupid not to address this as there are clearly plenty of vacancies in this industry for both British and foreign workers alike.

[imp566]

Aug 31, 2021 14:45:51 GMT yorkie said:

Aug 30, 2021 19:57:59 GMT imp566 said:

Radical and probably not a viable proposition due to the existing load, but we could encourage companies to utilise the rail network like they used to, transporting goods mainly overnight to take advantage of the low usage in the quiet hours,

Are you aware that there are many hundreds of containers that are moved from the ports across East Anglia on a daily basis.

Some of these may well be destined for say the midlands. The question is, when they are off loaded they need HGV drivers to then move them on to their destination, which could be several miles away.

This is just one example. Not all containers that come into the UK are picked up and then driven along the A14, although there are still far too many.

To make it work, even if say UK manufacturers wanted to move vehicles from their factories to all parts of this country the infrastructure is not available by the rail network. A good idea in principle but a long way to go.

I understand that, but if the rail infrastructure was robust enough to support goods traffic for the long haul journeys, we wouldn't have so much reliance on long haul HGV. Obviously we would need to transport goods from local rail hubs, but it would cut down the number of lorries on the road.

It goes back to my original point though, not sure the rail network can take the load that would be required.

[spartacus]

There's no need to bring foreign workers in, there are already thousands of qualified HGV drivers here who never drive lorries. Many people passed their HGV test and got a job driving a lorry but soon realised for various reasons the job wasn't really for them. This is usually due to the excessive hours they are expected to work, usually 60-70 hours per week including compulsory weekend work and start times which mean they have no social or family life.

A lot of these already qualified drivers would probably put up with this situation if they felt the pay made all the negative points that come with the job worthwhile but due mainly to the huge influx of east European drivers over the last twenty years the wages have hardly risen to the point where workers who have more rules, regulations and responsibilities than almost any other industry have been paid no more than people working in Tesco's or McDonald's and the only solution is for drivers and workers in many other undesirable jobs to be payed what they are actually worth in terms of how important they are to keeping the country functioning.
And as for putting more goods on the rail network, just about all transport runs on what is called a "just in time" basis whereby it needs to be moved fast and you can't get stuff from one side of the country to a final destination the other side of the country in three or four hours on a train.

[Mark of Carnage]

Sept 1, 2021 14:12:41 GMT spartacus said:

There's no need to bring foreign workers in, there are already thousands of qualified HGV drivers here who never drive lorries. Many people passed their HGV test and got a job driving a lorry but soon realised for various reasons the job wasn't really for them. This is usually due to the excessive hours they are expected to work, usually 60-70 hours per week including compulsory weekend work and start times which mean they have no social or family life.

A lot of these already qualified drivers would probably put up with this situation if they felt the pay made all the negative points that come with the job worthwhile but due mainly to the huge influx of east European drivers over the last twenty years the wages have hardly risen to the point where workers who have more rules, regulations and responsibilities than almost any other industry have been paid no more than people working in Tesco's or McDonald's and the only solution is for drivers and workers in many other undesirable jobs to be payed what they are actually worth in terms of how important they are to keeping the country functioning.
And as for putting more goods on the rail network, just about all transport runs on what is called a "just in time" basis whereby it needs to be moved fast and you can't get stuff from one side of the country to a final destination the other side of the country in three or four hours on a train.

Apparently there were around 323,000 employed HGV drivers in the Uk in 2018. Prior to Brexit only 54,000 of those were EEA nationals down to 35,000 now who pretty much all will have settled status under the Withdrawal Agreement. Less than 20% of the workforce doesn't strike me as a 'huge influx' of foreigners coming here to drive our trucks, steal our women etc.

Surely poor working conditions are not the fault of the truckers themselves if demand for drivers has exceeded supply for so many years. With or without foreign workers there would still be a big shortage of drivers so it seems daft to not want to grant visas quickly to experienced foreign workers when there are plenty of jobs out there for all. Seems to me it is just as important to encourage those Eastern European drivers to apply for visas and come back here as it is to encourage Brits.

[MartinL]

Easy to spot the Leave voters, isn’t it?