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Rwanda
Apr 14, 2022 12:58:47 GMT
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Post by Andrewlang on Apr 14, 2022 12:58:47 GMT
Um, what the f*ck?
Someone help me make sense of it.
Andrew
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mrjimmy
Youth team star
Posts: 1,381
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Rwanda
Apr 14, 2022 21:03:54 GMT
Post by mrjimmy on Apr 14, 2022 21:03:54 GMT
A populist interpretation of 'the journey is the destination'?
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MartinL
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Posts: 4,045
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Rwanda
Apr 14, 2022 23:52:21 GMT
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Post by MartinL on Apr 14, 2022 23:52:21 GMT
Um, what the f*ck? Someone help me make sense of it. Andrew Setting the groundwork to get the UKIP/Brexit Party/ any other right wing party voters onside for the next election.
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Rwanda
Apr 15, 2022 6:20:53 GMT
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Post by artvandelay on Apr 15, 2022 6:20:53 GMT
Um, what the f*ck? Someone help me make sense of it. Andrew Setting the groundwork to get the UKIP/Brexit Party/ any other right wing party voters onside for the next election. Groundwork? The house is complete!
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Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Apr 15, 2022 7:37:30 GMT
They will be concentration camps that will provide no protection under UK law for those detained there. Australia did the same in Papua New Guinea and had to stop them recently when their reputation was tarnished by horror stories of abuse. Nothing about this suggests the UK won't have a similar or even worse experience. Human rights issues are obvious to all and one has to wonder why a UK government thinks it is good for the reputation of the UK to be seen as complicit in human rights abuse. Didn't Germany set up concentration camps outside of Germany from 1940 to avoid what little protection their state afforded detainees. There will be plenty of legal challenges on pretty good grounds and I think this fits the government's narrative on wanting to reduce powers of judicial review and further discredit the human rights act in the eyes of populist right wing voters. Hopefully at the next GE the electorate will have woken up to the damage the Tories have done and vote differently. One would hope that it is not acceptable to the electorate to vote for a political party led by a man who has a criminal record.
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Post by artvandelay on Apr 15, 2022 8:43:44 GMT
Didn't Germany set up concentration camps outside of Germany from 1940 to avoid what little protection their state afforded detainees. Similar to what Britain did in Kenya just a few years later. Never again, they said...
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neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
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Post by neilmc4 on Apr 15, 2022 17:26:24 GMT
If you`ve just been found guilty of breaking British law why not go the whole hog and break International law as well?
I`m really struggling to think of any other occasions in my life when I`ve been quite so ashamed and embarrassed to be British.
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soulhalshall
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Posts: 1,460
Favourite CUFC player: Courtney Pitt
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Rwanda
Apr 15, 2022 18:33:20 GMT
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Post by soulhalshall on Apr 15, 2022 18:33:20 GMT
You just weep that we are at the point in political discourse and politics where an MP (Lucy Allan) can respond to arguments with: 'Rwanda is a wonderful welcoming country - please can the Left stop trashing Rwanda'.
For casual observers, person on the Clapham omnibus, without clear political allegiances, their reaction is I would think that aren't all politicians wasters and chancers. Where we'd hope for a 'let's give the other side a chance' crowd, hoping then that Keir Starmer manages to rustle up a bit more of a backbone.
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Post by Mark Peters’ Bonce of Power on Apr 15, 2022 23:28:53 GMT
Disgusting as it is, this policy means and will likely come to nothing. Alexander Johnson himself has already admitted it will be subject to numerous legal challenges that delay it being enacted, by which time it will have served it’s purpose of throwing red meat to his deranged supporters, will enrage his opponents into being distracted from the real reasons he and his cabinet need to go and will ultimately be quietly forgotten.
Sorry did someone say cynicism?
Edit - On reflection, wrong to say it means nothing, as obviously it’s horrendous that they’d even float such an idea, and worrying how may people seem to like it, but I still don’t they’ve actually any intention of following through.
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Post by Jerry1971 on Apr 27, 2022 8:31:10 GMT
Not commented on this yet, but to start with, as you all know I'm a Tory, as a life long party member I want to make it absolutely crystal clear that I absoluely do NOT agree with the Rwanda policy. It is a hideous affair, lacking in humanity and almost completely at odds with the welcoming and open tradition the UK has had for many years. My Mum passed away last month and I've been undertaking the unenviable but necessary task of sorting through her personal effects, something so many of us have had to do at least once in our lives. Whilst I was doing this I came across her own naturalisation papers from the 1940's, together with my Grandparents' Czech and Austrian passports. I'm only first generation British and without the welcoming traditions of the UK I'd probably be in Austria or the Czech Republic now. That said, these days, those are both safe countries where I could have enjoyed a happy and productive life, not so however in my Mum's era of the 1930's/40's, and this is precisely the point as to why Rwanda fails on so many levels. It simply doesn't differentiate between the need for people to come to the UK, rather tarnishing asylum seekers with the same brush of choosing economic migration for personal gain instead of understanding the real reasons behind the choice to move to a place of safety, often where family ties exist already.
The policy is also at odds with the UK's magnificent leadership and support for the Ukraine crisis - we've shown as a nation that we are prepared to stand up for those facing mortal danger and a humanitarian crisis resulting from War but seemingly forget that some wanting to come here are fleeing similar situations elsewhere in the World.
However, the UK has struggled to accomodate the vastly increased numbers of those wishing to come here over the past few years, just as other European countries have too. The Rwanda policy could be argued to be working in the Government's eyes already, with not one single rubber boat arriving over the weekend so perhaps the aim to stave off simple economic migration may well work through fear of being sent to Rwanda rather than that actually happening in reality? Whatever, it is just not very British at all to do this, even if it will curtail the trafficking gangs for a bit, and I feel deeply conflicted that a party I've been a member of for so long could actually think this is a sensible way forward.
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Post by artvandelay on Apr 28, 2022 5:46:39 GMT
As an immigrant myself, I would like to ask when and where you thought Britain was welcoming? I honestly think that might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. All this feels like is that this is a step too far, even for people who openly support a truly vile political party.
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Post by Jerry1971 on Apr 28, 2022 8:30:16 GMT
That really is a quite unpleasant response. You might not agree with my political affiliation, and I completely respect that, but to state that what I wrote was 'ridiculous' is at worst thoroughly disrespectful and at best shows you didn't bother to read properly what I wrote. The UK was incredibly welcoming to my family, and that is the evidence I offered in my post. I'm not suggesting that everyone has the same experience, but judging from my own circumstances and those of people I know in similar scenarios to that of my family, my view is not singularly unique.
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Rwanda
Apr 28, 2022 8:57:58 GMT
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Post by artvandelay on Apr 28, 2022 8:57:58 GMT
That really is a quite unpleasant response. You might not agree with my political affiliation, and I completely respect that, but to state that what I wrote was 'ridiculous' is at worst thoroughly disrespectful and at best shows you didn't bother to read properly what I wrote. The UK was incredibly welcoming to my family, and that is the evidence I offered in my post. I'm not suggesting that everyone has the same experience, but judging from my own circumstances and those of people I know in similar scenarios to that of my family, my view is not singularly unique. It isn't that I disagree with your political affiliation, it is that I find it thoroughly unpleasant. There was a clear implication that Britain is a welcoming country for immigrants, even the slightest awareness of reality should make you realise that that statement is not a universal truth!
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Rwanda
May 1, 2022 18:08:58 GMT
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Post by kentishu on May 1, 2022 18:08:58 GMT
Nice calm day today so 200 try to cross the channel but no doubt Jerry will continue to think the policy is working (whilst denying that he supports it whilst supporting the party behind it). You must feel really grubby sometimes.
Kentish
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Post by Andrewlang on May 1, 2022 18:24:24 GMT
I don't agree with much of what Jerry said in his post or his political allegiances, but I do believe he absolutely does not support this policy.
Maybe at worst there is tacit approval for something whenever you vote a party into power...? Eitherway, I believe him.
Andrew
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