imp566
Cult hero
Posts: 16,058
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Rwanda
May 1, 2022 19:15:18 GMT
Post by imp566 on May 1, 2022 19:15:18 GMT
I don't agree with much of what Jerry said in his post or his political allegiances, but I do believe he absolutely does not support this policy. Maybe at worst there is tacit approval for something whenever you vote a party into power...? Either way, I believe him. Andrew Isn't that the point of a democracy? We all vote and agree to abide by the result of the election. We don't necessarily have to agree with the decisions that are made after the election though.
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Rwanda
May 2, 2022 8:52:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by kentishu on May 2, 2022 8:52:01 GMT
If you don't believe in something, then say you don't believe in it, that is fine. Don't say that you don't believe in it, but it appears to be working. And if you really don't believe in it, you don't vote for the party that is behind it either - I see nothing to suggest a change in political allegiance. I am left wing, but didn't vote for Labour when Tony Blair led the party after Iraq.
Kentish
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Post by Andrewlang on May 2, 2022 12:15:00 GMT
I don't think he is saying it's working, I read it as saying it's at odds with a policy that *was* working before.
He's put himself in the shoes of the government and given an example why *they* might see it as working but the rest of the post makes it clear that doesn't represent Jerry's views on this particular policy. I think where somebody says 'they're deeply conflicted that a party they have supported for so long could think this is sensible' it gives us left wing types a foot in the door to maybe debate and change their vote in the future....maybe to sew doubt in their mind about other Tory policies. I just don't think you do that by calling somebody grubby...personally I think that'd make me dig my heels in.
Nationwide I guess he's not the only one 'conflicted' by this, or by the behaviour of the prime minister and others the last two years. For me that gives the other parties an opportunity to steal votes if they refrain from the squabbling and point scoring that politics seems to have become.
Jerry can speak for himself though, so apologies for jumping in. No offence intended to anyone obviously. Hugs and love xx
Andrew
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Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
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Post by Mark of Carnage on May 2, 2022 19:52:39 GMT
I don't agree with much of what Jerry said in his post or his political allegiances, but I do believe he absolutely does not support this policy. Maybe at worst there is tacit approval for something whenever you vote a party into power...? Either way, I believe him. Andrew Isn't that the point of a democracy? We all vote and agree to abide by the result of the election. We don't necessarily have to agree with the decisions that are made after the election though. I kind of go along with this approach but it troubles me. I am a democrat and think democracy should only ever be about decision making and elections are not really about true decision making. Elections are a passive form of engagement that allows the masses to surrender all decision making to a tiny cohort of powerful individuals. It shouldn't be about elections but modern politics has made elections synonymus with democracy. Until we find that path to work alongside elections again democracy as we know it will become increasingly corrupt and dare I say in it's present form is overated and full of hypocracy. I'm not against elections. Just the way we surrender our power in them. The only decision at an election should be who to elect as leaders and not about anything else. There should be other checks and balances. Certainly we need to get away from it being about parties. If you really want to participate in democracy get active at a grassroots level in a union shop etc. Don't kid youself that voting in a GE absolves you of your decision making responsibilities. As far as decision making at higher level goes I liked the Irish approach of having 'parliaments' of 100(?) people carefully selected at random based on demographic make up to make shadow decisions that governments have to listen to. Referendums don't get the demographics right as some groups are more inclined to vote than others.I think it's democratically healthy to have decisions 'shadowed' by a lay body that has some powers of veto and initiative. Anyway I see elections as about power not democracy. Something had better change over the course of this century in the way we make decisions and sooner rather than later in Western democracies if we are to avoid an apocalyptic century. On 24/2/22 around a 1/4 of the 200 nation states in the UN did not vote to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine and I wonder how much this was because patronising democratic states reek of hypocracy when dealing with autocracies.
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pgtips (lurid)
Youth team substitute
Scattered thoughts, but thoughts nonetheless
Posts: 694
Favourite CUFC player: Dion Dublin
Favourite CUFC match: 2-0 Vs Pish 22/23
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Rwanda
Aug 3, 2022 17:53:40 GMT
Post by pgtips (lurid) on Aug 3, 2022 17:53:40 GMT
The current voting system is an objection to your least favourite candidate by voting against them. It is how first past the post elections work.
Given how little say that offers in policy choice or even overall national party strategy, I implore all citizens (even those that see themselves as subjects) to find means to influence politics outside of voting. Lobbyists seem to think that financing "perks" and persistent direct communication with MPs is the way to get them on board. I'd rather we had a means more seated in evidence, logic and public interest.
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