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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Oct 14, 2023 11:17:34 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still.
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Post by cufctheparrot on Oct 14, 2023 11:42:12 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still. Not sure I would necessarily agree with that, after the war it was clear that a homeland was needed for Jews where they were supposed to feel safe, and having a historic background in the area going back to 1,000 bc then an area of the middle east was the most logical. I think Btitain and the UN are often unfairly blamed for how it all ended up. The least problematic option would have been for all countries to accept the creation of the state of Israel and not try to eradicate it, along with the creation of the Nations of Palestine and the internation city of Jerusalem. It's all gone wrong on both sides ever since.
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btb
Youth team substitute
Posts: 573
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Post by btb on Oct 14, 2023 12:10:32 GMT
If we're giving shoutouts then don't forget us and the USA. We've pretty much given our approval for ethnic cleansing. 🤷♂️ Andrew Isn’t that exactly what Hamas (friends of Corbyn) want to do and carried this out last weekend?
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Post by Andrewlang on Oct 14, 2023 12:37:36 GMT
There have been some pretty despicable acts on both sides, yeah. Not just in this last week either.
It's been very weird to go on Twitter, or even some of the news reporting, and see them take a side. Strikes me that history will judge taking a stand against one or the other very badly.
Andrew
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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Oct 14, 2023 13:03:32 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still. Not sure I would necessarily agree with that, after the war it was clear that a homeland was needed for Jews where they were supposed to feel safe, and having a historic background in the area going back to 1,000 bc then an area of the middle east was the most logical. I think Btitain and the UN are often unfairly blamed for how it all ended up. The least problematic option would have been for all countries to accept the creation of the state of Israel and not try to eradicate it, along with the creation of the Nations of Palestine and the internation city of Jerusalem. It's all gone wrong on both sides ever since. We had a bigot in charge who also hated Jews and wanted them not on our doorstep. So we took some of our land and created this mess. It's not really unfair to call those bits as they are. Naturally, escalations afterward aren't solely our fault but we still created the issue in the first place. Anyway, on a more general note, social media is utterly horrendous at the moment, why does everything have to be so partisan and bipolar? It's not an Old Firm derby, there are no winners.
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Post by Andrewlang on Oct 14, 2023 13:11:19 GMT
Social media is designed in a way that that encourages people to have firm views on subjects in order to get attention. It's utterly depressing to see people using the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people to fuel their narcism.
Andrew
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Post by cufctheparrot on Oct 14, 2023 18:09:26 GMT
Not sure I would necessarily agree with that, after the war it was clear that a homeland was needed for Jews where they were supposed to feel safe, and having a historic background in the area going back to 1,000 bc then an area of the middle east was the most logical. I think Btitain and the UN are often unfairly blamed for how it all ended up. The least problematic option would have been for all countries to accept the creation of the state of Israel and not try to eradicate it, along with the creation of the Nations of Palestine and the internation city of Jerusalem. It's all gone wrong on both sides ever since. We had a bigot in charge who also hated Jews and wanted them not on our doorstep. So we took some of our land and created this mess. It's not really unfair to call those bits as they are. Naturally, escalations afterward aren't solely our fault but we still created the issue in the first place. Anyway, on a more general note, social media is utterly horrendous at the moment, why does everything have to be so partisan and bipolar? It's not an Old Firm derby, there are no winners. Regardless of wether Balfour wanted Jews in or near Britain it would be unprecedented to be on a winning side in a war and end up giving away some of the UK to form the state of Israel. Britain gained control of the Palestine area from the Ottomans after the First World War, so in some respect were handed the problem, and after the Second World War couldn’t agree the issue so involved the League of Nations. Options considered after the war included forming Israel in the US, but again why would a nation in the winning side in the war then give up some of their land. Areas of Germany were considered but not unsurprisingly the remaining Jews were not keen on that, which would leave them having Germany as a much larger neighbour, so the Middle East was the most appropriate choice, especially given its historic relevance to Israel. I’m not sure Britain or the League of Nations had much choice. The longer it has gone on it has just become an even bigger issue and now an unsolvable problem. Northern Ireland was and remains difficult enough, Israel and Palestine is so much more difficult than that.
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Post by artvandelay on Oct 15, 2023 12:26:20 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still. In fairness to Britain, they are extremely good at creating messes and then fucking off.
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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Oct 15, 2023 12:40:43 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still. In fairness to Britain, they are extremely good at creating messes and then fucking off. Or creating messes and not fucking off, as per Occupied Ireland!
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Post by kentishu on Oct 15, 2023 12:59:48 GMT
Oh yeah, and we created this mess in the first place but still. In fairness to Britain, they are extremely good at creating messes and then fucking off. Cameron managed to screw Libya, the EU and got pretty close to the UK too, and then f**ked off. I guess that's quite an achievement, wonder whether he's pleased with himself. Kentish
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TallPaddy
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,011
Favourite CUFC player: tom finney
Favourite CUFC match: Arsenal away Fa cup
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Post by TallPaddy on Nov 14, 2023 15:42:57 GMT
If we're giving shoutouts then don't forget us and the USA. We've pretty much given our approval for ethnic cleansing. 🤷♂️ Andrew Isn’t that exactly what Hamas (friends of Corbyn) want to do and carried this out last weekend? Look up the exact context of the situation in which Jeremy Corbyn used the words "our friends from Hamas" You may (or may not) be surprised. Just consider who started panicking when it looked like a lifelong pacifist, anti corruption campaigner and believer in public ownership of utilities might win a general election? Do you consider that those people needed to smear him? The thatcher government, mi5 and 6 all met with the provisional IRA. Do you consider them "friends" of the IRA? Or were they trying to bring an end to the "troubles"?
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TallPaddy
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,011
Favourite CUFC player: tom finney
Favourite CUFC match: Arsenal away Fa cup
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Post by TallPaddy on Nov 14, 2023 15:49:00 GMT
And Palestine? Or just Israel? The 400+ Palestinian children already dead are innocent too. Despite the recent wording from the English FA there is no country called Palestine just 2 separate contested & semi autonomous territories under Israeli control but definitely both Israelis & Palestinians have suffered from inhumane acts of cruelty & murder There isn't a country called Palestine at the moment but check out an atlas from about 100 years ago and there is! It's where Israel is now! There's also no "country" called northern Ireland !
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Post by saltyvinegar on Nov 14, 2023 16:00:27 GMT
It may be marked on an old map but still not a "country" by modern definition but more like a "region" or "territory"
Lifted direct from UN site :
1917 – 1947: British mandate
Palestine was among former Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations in 1922. All of these territories eventually became fully independent States, except Palestine, where in addition to “the rendering of administrative assistance and advice” the British Mandate incorporated the “Balfour Declaration” of 1917, expressing support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”. During the Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the Nazi persecution. Arab demands for independence and resistance to immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides. UK considered various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, the UK turned the Palestine problem over to the UN
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