When is it time? V2.0-1

[milesfenton]

Well done for checking the figures Nick, I just took it at face value!

I do think there's a massive danger of chucking out the baby with the bathwater.

[westchestertonbear]

We are just about on target for a lower half but not relegated finish.

We have some winnable games in Dec and January - I’d say if we are in the bottom 4 before or after the next Posh game then it’s time.

[danielcufc]

I have said before that I like MB and that he is ultimately a fan like the rest of us, but its his brand of football that is a painful watch. Its so predictable in the way we set up and as soon as we concede, much like last year, that's that. It was so evident in how we struggled to break down Southern League Bracknell last week. In the promotion season we played attacking football perhaps because we had more attacking and front foot players. The first year up we were more interesting to watch and yes there where some thumpings like Sheff Weds but we still scored goals and comfortably held our own. We also recruited some better players from League 2 like Jones & Brophy. That all seems to have changed in the last few windows.

Someone mentioned on here yesterday that like Beck did has Bonner become too stubborn and inflexible around tactics? Yes I understand where we are in terms of budget but I would like us to have a more positive indentity. So many other sides in the league play with wing backs (or perhaps just against us) allowing them to play with 2 or 3 up. They can also change formation tactically in games. We don't seem willing or able to do that. The creative players in the side like Brophy look shackled. What has happened to Thomas since August? Where are the goals coming from? Last year injuries where a valid excuse but bar Dunk & Cousins everyone else is fit. Why are some of the young talents like Mcconnell never on the bench? I was so hoping that this year would be different but its becoming a frustrating, dull watch again and that is ultimatley down to Bonner.

[MartinL]

Nov 12, 2023 8:48:21 GMT nickpom said:

Nov 11, 2023 17:31:46 GMT MartinL said:

We have 2 less points than the same stage last season- that isn’t progress.
I haven’t voted yet as I’m unsure as to what my opinion is at the moment. Certainly not out at the moment but as I said in another post, this season is going the same way as last season.
Something needs to change but I’m buggered if I know what that change is!

Wrong - last season we had 19 points after seventeen games (the seventeenth game also being Peterborough away) 6 wins, 1 draw, 10 defeats. GD was -11.
This season we have 20 points after 5 wins, 5 draws and 7 defeats. GD is -7.

There were eight teams strongly favoured by both bookies and pundits to be fighting relegation - of those eight only Stevenage are above us; the other six make up six of the bottom seven: Cheltenham, Carlisle, Northampton, Exeter, Fleetwood and Shrewsbury.

Although the gap behind the really big teams has closed a bit, we still have the fourth or fifth smallest budget in this division. We are not in the bottom four or five.

Yesterday's performance was woeful, it was unacceptable. We need to see a genuine, positive reaction to that from the manager and players. Fans are justifiably pissed off after that game.


However by any objective measure we are continuing to overperform under Mark Bonner. People need to get a grip...

I stand corrected- it was back of a cigarette pack calculation on my part.
For me it’s not so much the slight difference in points, it’s the similarity between this season and last. Decent start, then a bad run (1 win in 11).
Like I said, I’m currently not Bonner out but it’s just beginning to feel like he’s taken us as far as he can on the field and doesn’t appear to have any idea how to change it.

[HelterSkelter]

Nov 12, 2023 8:48:21 GMT nickpom said:

Nov 11, 2023 17:31:46 GMT MartinL said:

We have 2 less points than the same stage last season- that isn’t progress.
I haven’t voted yet as I’m unsure as to what my opinion is at the moment. Certainly not out at the moment but as I said in another post, this season is going the same way as last season.
Something needs to change but I’m buggered if I know what that change is!

Wrong - last season we had 19 points after seventeen games (the seventeenth game also being Peterborough away) 6 wins, 1 draw, 10 defeats. GD was -11.
This season we have 20 points after 5 wins, 5 draws and 7 defeats. GD is -7.

There were eight teams strongly favoured by both bookies and pundits to be fighting relegation - of those eight only Stevenage are above us; the other six make up six of the bottom seven: Cheltenham, Carlisle, Northampton, Exeter, Fleetwood and Shrewsbury.

Although the gap behind the really big teams has closed a bit, we still have the fourth or fifth smallest budget in this division. We are not in the bottom four or five.

Yesterday's performance was woeful, it was unacceptable. We need to see a genuine, positive reaction to that from the manager and players. Fans are justifiably pissed off after that game.


However by any objective measure we are continuing to overperform under Mark Bonner. People need to get a grip...

100% correct, considering the Plan A only, one dimensional tactics, we are very much over-performing under Bonner. Now if we could get someone in with a Plan B and Plan C as well as the ability to adjust on the fly, we might start to perform on-par. That "par" being an on paper strengthening in most areas of the team and we shouldn't be troubling relegation this season.

All moot anyway. There is zero point discussing the manager / head coach position at this club when everyone should be aware of how that position works.

[peu04e]

Football is simple like most things in life.

Not scoring goals? Sign a striker on a free who no one else wants who will guarantee 20 goals a season.

On a bad run? Sign a new manager who is proven to be able to guarantee at least a good performance in every match, bring about continuous, uninterrupted improvement every season and motivate the team to play like lions every game. And have a Plan B and C to change any game that isn't going well. Oh and who is happy and able to do all that with a bottom 6 budget.

[ugirl]

Nov 12, 2023 11:05:32 GMT HelterSkelter said:

All moot anyway. There is zero point discussing the manager / head coach position at this club when everyone should be aware of how that position works.

This.

Forget such polls. He's going nowhere. I'd like to think everyone knows this. 

[Exiled]

Definitely not time yet. Of course losing to Boro like that was terrible, and won't be forgotten for a long time, but at the end of the day it's just one game. The main thing is that we can stay in this division.

Everybody was quite happy after we beat Carlisle, which wasn't very long ago. On top of that, we aren't near the relegation positions yet, so let's just see how it goes.

However, I do wish he would give McConnell and Yearn more chances, and he does seem conservative in that regard. He keeps playing JK Gordon for example, who doesn't seem to do much useful when he comes on.

[joeaustin]

Nov 12, 2023 8:48:21 GMT nickpom said:

Nov 11, 2023 17:31:46 GMT MartinL said:

We have 2 less points than the same stage last season- that isn’t progress.
I haven’t voted yet as I’m unsure as to what my opinion is at the moment. Certainly not out at the moment but as I said in another post, this season is going the same way as last season.
Something needs to change but I’m buggered if I know what that change is!

Although the gap behind the really big teams has closed a bit, we still have the fourth or fifth smallest budget in this division. We are not in the bottom four or five.

Where’s the data that our budget is only fourth or fifth lowest? The club has chosen to spend a significant amount off the pitch as well. Just interested where you get these figures from?

[Andrewlang]

I'm not *too* fussed by Yearconnell myself. They're both excellent and I'd love to get them in the side but it's easy to forget they're still only first year pros, I know we want to fast track them but i'm happy enough to see them go to a conference club to further their development. Maybe even 4th division if we can. I guess we'll see when the loans are (hopefully) finalised this week.

Jobe is maybe a bit different. He's had that development loan (Maidstone) and I'd like to see him integrated a bit more if we can. I guess while we have Rossi and Jubril it's sensible to get him out on loan rather than not in the but I think he's moved ahead of Rossi for me. Maybe Jubril too.

Andrew

[Dylan]

Nov 12, 2023 11:05:32 GMT HelterSkelter said:

Nov 12, 2023 8:48:21 GMT nickpom said:

Wrong - last season we had 19 points after seventeen games (the seventeenth game also being Peterborough away) 6 wins, 1 draw, 10 defeats. GD was -11.
This season we have 20 points after 5 wins, 5 draws and 7 defeats. GD is -7.

There were eight teams strongly favoured by both bookies and pundits to be fighting relegation - of those eight only Stevenage are above us; the other six make up six of the bottom seven: Cheltenham, Carlisle, Northampton, Exeter, Fleetwood and Shrewsbury.

Although the gap behind the really big teams has closed a bit, we still have the fourth or fifth smallest budget in this division. We are not in the bottom four or five.

Yesterday's performance was woeful, it was unacceptable. We need to see a genuine, positive reaction to that from the manager and players. Fans are justifiably pissed off after that game.


However by any objective measure we are continuing to overperform under Mark Bonner. People need to get a grip...

100% correct, considering the Plan A only, one dimensional tactics, we are very much over-performing under Bonner. Now if we could get someone in with a Plan B and Plan C as well as the ability to adjust on the fly, we might start to perform on-par. That "par" being an on paper strengthening in most areas of the team and we shouldn't be troubling relegation this season.

All moot anyway. There is zero point discussing the manager / head coach position at this club when everyone should be aware of how that position works.

"We must sack Bonner but I believe he is untouchable whatever the circumstances."

How to make yourself miserable by connecting two separate thoughts!

[rozza1]

Nov 12, 2023 13:01:05 GMT Andrewlang said:

I'm not *too* fussed by Yearconnell myself. They're both excellent and I'd love to get them in the side but it's easy to forget they're still only first year pros, I know we want to fast track them but i'm happy enough to see them go to a conference club to further their development. Maybe even 4th division if we can. I guess we'll see when the loans are (hopefully) finalised this week.

Jobe is maybe a bit different. He's had that development loan (Maidstone) and I'd like to see him integrated a bit more if we can. I guess while we have Rossi and Jubril it's sensible to get him out on loan rather than not in the but I think he's moved ahead of Rossi for me. Maybe Jubril too.

Andrew

Thing is I don't think anyone is against them going out on loan. The thing what I find is strange is naming a short bench when he had these players available to him.

Doesn't help either when players like Gordon have been largely useless yet still gets opportunities over say McConnell who has been stopped from going out on loan so far and hasn't put a foot wrong in the small amount of chances he's been given.

[amberisbackdrink]

Nov 12, 2023 13:01:05 GMT Andrewlang said:

I'm not *too* fussed by Yearconnell myself. They're both excellent and I'd love to get them in the side but it's easy to forget they're still only first year pros, I know we want to fast track them but i'm happy enough to see them go to a conference club to further their development. Maybe even 4th division if we can. I guess we'll see when the loans are (hopefully) finalised this week.

Jobe is maybe a bit different. He's had that development loan (Maidstone) and I'd like to see him integrated a bit more if we can. I guess while we have Rossi and Jubril it's sensible to get him out on loan rather than not in the but I think he's moved ahead of Rossi for me. Maybe Jubril too.

Andrew

My fear with throwing in Yearn and McConnell is confidence gets hit especially in a game like yesterday. A suitable loan is needed for both players to aid development.

[spartacus]

I don't want Bonner sacked but I think he needs a major re- think about the way he sets his team up while he's still got time. He might have thought his negative tactical approach could work if he could get in better players which he supposedly did but the evidence is there that we need to change the way we play and do it soon.
As things are it looks a certainty we'll get drawn into another relegation battle, everything looks exactly as it did this time last year. Didn't some clever bloke once say the definition of madness is to keep repeatedly doing the same thing and expect a different outcome or something like that.

[imp566]

Nov 12, 2023 13:52:46 GMT rozza1 said:

Nov 12, 2023 13:01:05 GMT Andrewlang said:

I'm not *too* fussed by Yearconnell myself. They're both excellent and I'd love to get them in the side but it's easy to forget they're still only first year pros, I know we want to fast track them but i'm happy enough to see them go to a conference club to further their development. Maybe even 4th division if we can. I guess we'll see when the loans are (hopefully) finalised this week.

Jobe is maybe a bit different. He's had that development loan (Maidstone) and I'd like to see him integrated a bit more if we can. I guess while we have Rossi and Jubril it's sensible to get him out on loan rather than not in the but I think he's moved ahead of Rossi for me. Maybe Jubril too.

Andrew

Thing is I don't think anyone is against them going out on loan. The thing what I find is strange is naming a short bench when he had these players available to him.

Doesn't help either when players like Gordon have been largely useless yet still gets opportunities over say McConnell who has been stopped from going out on loan so far and hasn't put a foot wrong in the small amount of chances he's been given.

Wasn't the bench issue yesterday explained by Kaikai withdrawing at very short notice before the game? Even so, I am surprised we don't have a 'travelling reserve' for situations like that (or even more commonly, someone getting injured in the warm up)