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Post by flouncingarburyboy on Jul 7, 2024 16:39:55 GMT
Thanks for posting Andrew - on the one hand I'm absolutely delighted with this appointment ....could well be the most significant 'signing' of the transfer window....but on the other hand it's absolutely shocking how the world of football management is still putting up barriers to people who aren't white. Or perhaps there were just better candidates and it’s not all about quotas. Right...not sure how to respond to that really.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 7, 2024 16:49:09 GMT
Or perhaps there were just better candidates and it’s not all about quotas. Right...not sure how to respond to that really. Agreed, his CV is very impressive, it could be argued he deserves a chance either as a number 1 at this level, or as a number 2 at the level above. Perhaps he will get his chance with us when the Monkera closes.
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Post by btb on Jul 7, 2024 17:04:49 GMT
Or perhaps there were just better candidates and it’s not all about quotas. Right...not sure how to respond to that really. So you are arguing that he should get a job BECAUSE he is black. That is crazy. The best candidate and best fit for a job should always be the first choice.
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foolhandy
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Post by foolhandy on Jul 7, 2024 17:25:48 GMT
15% of the UK population is non-white. 40% of players in the top four English leagues There are not anywhere near 15-40 non-white league managers.
No, we should not have quotas to put this 'right', and it won't necessarily follow that the figures should be the same, but there is a huge difference and I can't believe that of those 40% of players there are only one or two that are good enough.
Is it a glass ceiling? Who knows? But it's odd.
(Incidentally, for many years it was the similar for men and women in primary schools - 90% female staff, with almost none in leadership roles. Was it sexism and misogyny? Who knows? But it was definitely the case.)
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Post by Bendigeidfran on Jul 7, 2024 17:27:04 GMT
Right...not sure how to respond to that really. So you are arguing that he should get a job BECAUSE he is black. That is crazy. The best candidate and best fit for a job should always be the first choice. No, he shouldn't, and didn't get the job because he's black. He's a vastly qualified coach who deserves the role on merit. But to counter that, are you suggesting the huge chasm between white and non white coaches and managers in professional football is purely down to their respective abilities?
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 7, 2024 17:27:27 GMT
Not at all, just suggesting he might have been the victim of Unconscious (or even worse) Conscious Bias. His CV is every bit as impressive as many candidates for jobs, so your point about the best candidate and best fit should also apply to him, unless you are suggesting that the colour of his skin doesn't align with him being considered a 'good fit'?
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Post by flouncingarburyboy on Jul 7, 2024 17:28:02 GMT
Right...not sure how to respond to that really. So you are arguing that he should get a job BECAUSE he is black. That is crazy. The best candidate and best fit for a job should always be the first choice. Possibly best if you calm down a little and read the article that Andrew posted. That's what I was basing my post on...like evidence....
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Post by btb on Jul 7, 2024 17:30:20 GMT
So you are arguing that he should get a job BECAUSE he is black. That is crazy. The best candidate and best fit for a job should always be the first choice. Possibly best if you calm down a little and read the article that Andrew posted. That's what I was basing my post on...like evidence.... There is NO evidence in the article, unless you can show where it shows who got the job(s) and why. Without that you are sounding a tad racist my friend.
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Post by flouncingarburyboy on Jul 7, 2024 17:32:41 GMT
Possibly best if you calm down a little and read the article that Andrew posted. That's what I was basing my post on...like evidence.... There is NO evidence in the article, unless you can show where it shows who got the job(s) and why. Without that you are sounding a tad racist my friend. Huh.....is all I can say.....btw on an evidence-based opinion....I'm really not your 'friend'.
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Post by imp566 on Jul 7, 2024 17:33:52 GMT
Possibly best if you calm down a little and read the article that Andrew posted. That's what I was basing my post on...like evidence.... There is NO evidence in the article, unless you can show where it shows who got the job(s) and why. Without that you are sounding a tad racist my friend. Love the way you are twisting this round 180 degrees. All that others are suggesting is that the number of black coaches is low, and that on the face of it, there are plenty of worthy examples that could and should have been given an opportunity; nothing to do with quotas, that would be positive discrimination (not racism). Nothing even mildly racist in that.
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Post by btb on Jul 7, 2024 17:44:37 GMT
There is NO evidence in the article, unless you can show where it shows who got the job(s) and why. Without that you are sounding a tad racist my friend. Love the way you are twisting this round 180 degrees. All that others are suggesting is that the number of black coaches is low, and that on the face of it, there are plenty of worthy examples that could and should have been given an opportunity; nothing to do with quotas, that would be positive discrimination (not racism). Nothing even mildly racist in that. It might be because the white coaches are better, it might be because they interview better, it might be because they are better qualified but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that discrimination is widespread because from what I can see, apart from a statistical anomaly, there is no real evidence that you are presenting here.
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Post by imp566 on Jul 7, 2024 17:48:37 GMT
Love the way you are twisting this round 180 degrees. All that others are suggesting is that the number of black coaches is low, and that on the face of it, there are plenty of worthy examples that could and should have been given an opportunity; nothing to do with quotas, that would be positive discrimination (not racism). Nothing even mildly racist in that. It might be because the white coaches are better, it might be because they interview better, it might be because they are better qualified but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that discrimination is widespread because from what I can see, apart from a statistical anomaly, there is no real evidence that you are presenting here. Not for a minute am I suggesting that the best man, regardless of colour of skin shouldn't get any job; but the 'statistical anomaly' you allude to is damning of the ratio of equally qualified black/white coaches hired. Keep your eyes closed if you like, but the facts suggest there is more to this than just interviewing better.
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Post by flouncingarburyboy on Jul 7, 2024 17:52:40 GMT
Love the way you are twisting this round 180 degrees. All that others are suggesting is that the number of black coaches is low, and that on the face of it, there are plenty of worthy examples that could and should have been given an opportunity; nothing to do with quotas, that would be positive discrimination (not racism). Nothing even mildly racist in that. It might be because the white coaches are better, it might be because they interview better, it might be because they are better qualified but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that discrimination is widespread because from what I can see, apart from a statistical anomaly, there is no real evidence that you are presenting here. Apologies for the late reply btb but I've just been making my handwritten poster saying 'WHITE GUYS DESERVE A CHANCE IN EFL MANAGEMENT' and I'll be up their HQs tmw morning. Hope you'll be opposite me? Of course the other side of the spin is that we've appointed an absolute charlatan as an Assistant Coach who is happy to make things up and lie in order to further his career. At least he'll give the snake a run for his money.
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Post by btb on Jul 7, 2024 17:54:44 GMT
It might be because the white coaches are better, it might be because they interview better, it might be because they are better qualified but it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that discrimination is widespread because from what I can see, apart from a statistical anomaly, there is no real evidence that you are presenting here. Not for a minute am I suggesting that the best man, regardless of colour of skin shouldn't get any job; but the 'statistical anomaly' you allude to is damning of the ratio of equally qualified black/white coaches hired. Keep your eyes closed if you like, but the facts suggest there is more to this than just interviewing better. I just don’t believe that 92 clubs would prefer to discriminate than choose who they believe is the best manager/coach for the job as that would be against their best interests surely. I personally think that Euell is a great appointment for us and got the job because he is better than Beattie.
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Post by funkymonk on Jul 7, 2024 17:59:15 GMT
Two assistant managers of colour in a row shouldn't provoke headloss.
I'm not over finding out Desmond Buckingham was white in the play off final, but such is life.
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