Brophypants
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What are you doing with my badge? :(
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Post by Brophypants on Jul 16, 2024 11:04:27 GMT
Southgate gives me DoF vibes perhaps, but not club manager vibes. Or I could see him staying within the England set up as some kind of elite pathways manager type thing. There'll probably be some punditry too. He's a good speaker. Not sure I see him managing a other country though. He seems too aware of being English for that 🤷🏻♂️ Andrew I think he's too nice to be a regular pundit. Maybe a tournament guest or whatever, but not a regular badgerer of the flavour of the weak
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Post by artvandelay on Jul 16, 2024 11:13:08 GMT
Southgate gives me DoF vibes perhaps, but not club manager vibes. Or I could see him staying within the England set up as some kind of elite pathways manager type thing. There'll probably be some punditry too. He's a good speaker. Not sure I see him managing a other country though. He seems too aware of being English for that 🤷🏻♂️ Andrew I think he's too nice to be a regular pundit. Maybe a tournament guest or whatever, but not a regular badgerer of the flavour of the weak With regard to punditry I would imagine his biggest fault is being too articulate. Being able to string two sentences together seems to be frowned upon by television executives who seem only interested in clips of idiots shouting nonsense going viral.
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Post by zx10racer22 on Jul 16, 2024 11:19:05 GMT
Just want to throw out some boring old Gareth Southgate stats.
From 1990 to 2016 there were 14 major tournaments. England scored 65 goals, an average of less than 5 goals per tournament (or slightly over 5 per tournament, if you want to pretend failing to qualify for two of the tournaments was a good thing).
An average of around 5. Our best in that time, was Euro 2004, when we scored 10.
Under boring, dull, predictable Gareth Southgate, we have scored 44 goals in 4 major tournaments. An average of 11. Our best was the 13 scored in the 2022 World Cup. Our three best tournaments for goals scored across this period were all under Southgate.
This summer's much-derided 8 goals still comes in joint 5th on that list.
England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone.
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Wingco's Boy
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Post by Wingco's Boy on Jul 16, 2024 11:28:19 GMT
England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone. I think that’s an unfair description of what most fans think. This was no sacking - the FA wanted to keep him. Southgate did a fantastic job in teaching England how to navigate deep into tournaments. That’s no small achievement and he’s done it often enough for it not to have been a fluke in any way. What is also apparent, though, is that he probably doesn’t have what it takes to achieve the ultimate prizes. Gareth Southgate deserves our thanks for a great body of work, but it’s time to move on - as he himself has recognised.
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Post by funkymonk on Jul 16, 2024 11:29:26 GMT
And to think it all started with a boat trip down the Seine, and a pint of wine.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 16, 2024 11:31:31 GMT
Just want to throw out some boring old Gareth Southgate stats. From 1990 to 2016 there were 14 major tournaments. England scored 65 goals, an average of less than 5 goals per tournament (or slightly over 5 per tournament, if you want to pretend failing to qualify for two of the tournaments was a good thing). An average of around 5. Our best in that time, was Euro 2004, when we scored 10. Under boring, dull, predictable Gareth Southgate, we have scored 44 goals in 4 major tournaments. An average of 11. Our best was the 13 scored in the 2022 World Cup. Our three best tournaments for goals scored across this period were all under Southgate. This summer's much-derided 8 goals still comes in joint 5th on that list. England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone.Not sure that is the case, most appreciate the progress we have made and wouldn't have flinched if he had stayed for the WC.
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Post by zx10racer22 on Jul 16, 2024 11:33:08 GMT
England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone. I think that’s an unfair description of what most fans think. This was no sacking - the FA wanted to keep him. Southgate did a fantastic job in teaching England how to navigate deep into tournaments. That’s no small achievement and he’s done it often enough for it not to have been a fluke in any way. What is also apparent, though, is that he probably doesn’t have what it takes to achieve the ultimate prizes. Gareth Southgate deserves our thanks for a great body of work, but it’s time to move on - as he himself has recognised. I appreciate there was no sacking, but the England fans reaction made his job untenable unless he won the tournament. He was literally having beer thrown at him, English pundits (who never won anything) slaughtering him and England fans all over social media slaughtering him.
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Post by flouncingarburyboy on Jul 16, 2024 11:34:21 GMT
Yeah, I really don't think they were calling for his head. Just go back to the England chaos of 2016 and see where we are now. The vast majority of England fans appreciate that.
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danboyb
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Post by danboyb on Jul 16, 2024 11:49:56 GMT
I think Southgate would have made the same decision even if we’d won on Sunday. The job comes with enormous scrutiny and pressure, he’s tired and probably made the decision months ago. The throwing of cups was wrong, but has nothing to do with him resigning.
He leaves with his head held high and with the respect of a huge majority of England fans, media and players. That’s rare in itself. I personally think it’s a bit early for Carsley, but whoever gets it inherits a very talented, young crop of players who are more than capable of ending the years of hurt.
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Post by mike_CUFC on Jul 16, 2024 11:55:51 GMT
Just want to throw out some boring old Gareth Southgate stats. From 1990 to 2016 there were 14 major tournaments. England scored 65 goals, an average of less than 5 goals per tournament (or slightly over 5 per tournament, if you want to pretend failing to qualify for two of the tournaments was a good thing). An average of around 5. Our best in that time, was Euro 2004, when we scored 10. Under boring, dull, predictable Gareth Southgate, we have scored 44 goals in 4 major tournaments. An average of 11. Our best was the 13 scored in the 2022 World Cup. Our three best tournaments for goals scored across this period were all under Southgate. This summer's much-derided 8 goals still comes in joint 5th on that list. England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone. However we have gone to a Final for only the second time and come joint 5th? So goals per tournament may well be higher but goals per game will be less as we went further in tournaments under Southgate. And this is part of the issue, had we won we wouldn't have cared as people rarely remember the football on display when you win a trophy. But when you come close (on multiple occasions) people often recall why it went wrong, and unfortunately for Southgate his negative tactics have no doubt played a part in that failure. Do I respect him, yes. Do I appreciate what he has managed to turn around after years of abject failure, yes. Am I glad he's stepped down, also yes. He's brought a lot of love back for the country, has got the players back on side. But now it's time for someone a bit bolder to take us to the next level of actually winning a trophy.
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Post by zx10racer22 on Jul 16, 2024 13:05:16 GMT
Just want to throw out some boring old Gareth Southgate stats. From 1990 to 2016 there were 14 major tournaments. England scored 65 goals, an average of less than 5 goals per tournament (or slightly over 5 per tournament, if you want to pretend failing to qualify for two of the tournaments was a good thing). An average of around 5. Our best in that time, was Euro 2004, when we scored 10. Under boring, dull, predictable Gareth Southgate, we have scored 44 goals in 4 major tournaments. An average of 11. Our best was the 13 scored in the 2022 World Cup. Our three best tournaments for goals scored across this period were all under Southgate. This summer's much-derided 8 goals still comes in joint 5th on that list. England fans have called for his head and now they have it. Well done, we have what we deserve. You never know what you have until it's gone. However we have gone to a Final for only the second time and come joint 5th? So goals per tournament may well be higher but goals per game will be less as we went further in tournaments under Southgate. And this is part of the issue, had we won we wouldn't have cared as people rarely remember the football on display when you win a trophy. But when you come close (on multiple occasions) people often recall why it went wrong, and unfortunately for Southgate his negative tactics have no doubt played a part in that failure. Do I respect him, yes. Do I appreciate what he has managed to turn around after years of abject failure, yes. Am I glad he's stepped down, also yes. He's brought a lot of love back for the country, has got the players back on side. But now it's time for someone a bit bolder to take us to the next level of actually winning a trophy. The goals per game part doesn't really work when a) you have to earn the right to play in those games by winning, so losing and getting a better goals per game ratio is not a good thing and b) in theory you play tougher games against teams who are harder to score against as the tournament goes on. For example, we scored 11 goals in WC66 and 10 goals in EUR04. Both tournaments had three group games and then into a QF. In 04, we were knocked out in the QF so played two less games, so EUR04 has a better goals per game ratio than WC66. But surely the 11 goals scored in WC66 trumps the 10 scored in EUR04 in terms of showing a successful attack? Because we're scoring goals and winning, rather than scoring goals and getting knocked out. We earned the right to play those two extra games in 66, which allowed us to reach 11 goals. Also to add... when the average goals per tournament has been pretty consistently around 5, through most of our history, and a new manager comes in and takes that average from 5 to 11, across 4 tournaments... it shows his teams are being successful at scoring goals, regardless to how many games they play. The fact is, Southgate's boring, dull, negative team has just scored 8 goals in a tournament and, pre Southgate, we'd only done that twice in our history. I do understand the gripes, but they were really based off of two games - Slovenia and Slovkia. The idea of Southgate being negative may be correct for those games in particular and perhaps that set a tone for the tournament, but it certainly doesn't hold true across the other three tournaments he oversaw.
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Post by funkymonk on Jul 16, 2024 14:13:10 GMT
Above all the stats and all that, just think of what the national team was from 2006 until Southgate took over.
We all hated the national team, and really didn't care, and now look at it. Pride. He made waistcoats cool, even managed to bring Atomic Kitten back out of wherever they were hiding (alright not his finest work!) and actually gave prospects a chance.
Gonna be a much more difficult job captaining the tanker now it's pointing the right direction.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 16, 2024 15:36:38 GMT
My worry if Carsley gets the job is that he is from the same stable as Southgate, has the age group teams playing a similar style. Do we need a new face completely, or risk being presented with the 'FA branded' template as we proceed with a new head coach
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milesfenton
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Post by milesfenton on Jul 16, 2024 15:54:09 GMT
My worry if Carsley gets the job is that he is from the same stable as Southgate, has the age group teams playing a similar style. Do we need a new face completely, or risk being presented with the 'FA branded' template as we proceed with a new head coach "Southgate but better tactically" would be pretty much perfect, wouldn't it? Southgate's got pretty much everything around team unity etc spot on, which feeds into better performances (particularly the resilience to come back from losing positions repeatedly). If someone can keep that going, while producing better football in the key games, then we'll be laughing.
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lesj
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Post by lesj on Jul 16, 2024 16:00:42 GMT
My vote is Potter, apart from his blip at Chelsea. See what he has done, especially for Ostersund & Brighton
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