|
Post by jonmacartney on May 15, 2016 7:45:59 GMT
Hardly helps the vote either! Whatever their 'reasoning' the messages coming from the 2 camps (according to the nuanced and subtle considerations emitting from my radio) appear to be, war and economic meltdown if we leave and a euro superstate seeking global domination if we remain.
Highly enlightening.
|
|
Wingco's Boy
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,130
Favourite CUFC player: Dion Dublin
Favourite CUFC match: Newcastle FAC 3rd round 2022
|
Post by Wingco's Boy on May 16, 2016 19:14:42 GMT
One million German jobs depend directly on the UK market. Fact. The day after a Brexit vote the CEOs of BMW, BASF, E.ON, RWE, (yes I know my German companies), Daimler, Siemens, Bayer....... will be banging on Mutti's door demanding no buggering around with tariffs on UK goods and services. Out!
|
|
|
Post by warren62 on May 17, 2016 6:24:56 GMT
One million German jobs depend directly on the UK market. Fact. The day after a Brexit vote the CEOs of BMW, BASF, E.ON, RWE, (yes I know my German companies), Daimler, Siemens, Bayer....... will be banging on Mutti's door demanding no buggering around with tariffs on UK goods and services. Out! My employer's major customer is a German company, most of our sales are in EU area, however most of the material used in our manufacturing process also derives from EU.. I would imagine this scenario is common to many UK companies. So it is a co-dependency with UK jobs also at risk should we leave .
|
|
Wingco's Boy
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,130
Favourite CUFC player: Dion Dublin
Favourite CUFC match: Newcastle FAC 3rd round 2022
|
Post by Wingco's Boy on May 17, 2016 8:02:44 GMT
One million German jobs depend directly on the UK market. Fact. The day after a Brexit vote the CEOs of BMW, BASF, E.ON, RWE, (yes I know my German companies), Daimler, Siemens, Bayer....... will be banging on Mutti's door demanding no buggering around with tariffs on UK goods and services. Out! My employer's major customer is a German company, most of our sales are in EU area, however most of the material used in our manufacturing process also derives from EU.. I would imagine this scenario is common to many UK companies. So it is a co-dependency with UK jobs also at risk should we leave . The point that I was trying to make is that those German CEOs know full well that any attempt to slap punitive tariffs on UK goods will immediately lead to a response in kind by the UK - the UK would have no choice, otherwise there would be a balance of payments crisis. Another thing to bear in mind is that it would be illegal under WTO rules for the levying of any tariff in excess of 4% on UK goods, another reason to discount the imposition of punitive trade barriers. The EU would simply be cutting off its nose to spite its face. In reality therefore, there would be NO attempt by Merkel & co. to increase tariffs on UK goods in the event of Brexit. All we are getting now from Cameron, Obama, Lagarde, 20 former US secretaries of state or whatever it was, is pure unadulterated scaremongering guff.
|
|
MartinL
Reserve team star
Posts: 4,045
|
Post by MartinL on May 17, 2016 9:17:45 GMT
"pure unadulterated scaremongering guff."
None of that from the Brexiters, is there?
|
|
|
Post by charliecufc on May 17, 2016 9:43:19 GMT
My employer's major customer is a German company, most of our sales are in EU area, however most of the material used in our manufacturing process also derives from EU.. I would imagine this scenario is common to many UK companies. So it is a co-dependency with UK jobs also at risk should we leave . The point that I was trying to make is that those German CEOs know full well that any attempt to slap punitive tariffs on UK goods will immediately lead to a response in kind by the UK - the UK would have no choice, otherwise there would be a balance of payments crisis. Another thing to bear in mind is that it would be illegal under WTO rules for the levying of any tariff in excess of 4% on UK goods, another reason to discount the imposition of punitive trade barriers. The EU would simply be cutting off its nose to spite its face. In reality therefore, there would be NO attempt by Merkel & co. to increase tariffs on UK goods in the event of Brexit. All we are getting now from Cameron, Obama, Lagarde, 20 former US secretaries of state or whatever it was, is pure unadulterated scaremongering guff. On top of that, Farage's current favourite FACTOID is that the costs incurred by WTO tariffs will be less than our net contribution to the EU. So even in the worst case scenario where we can't negotiate our own trade deals we'd still be better off. Naturally, this is completely unverified, but I thought I'd throw it into the mix all the same.
|
|
MartinL
Reserve team star
Posts: 4,045
|
Post by MartinL on May 17, 2016 10:55:00 GMT
|
|
Wingco's Boy
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,130
Favourite CUFC player: Dion Dublin
Favourite CUFC match: Newcastle FAC 3rd round 2022
|
Post by Wingco's Boy on May 17, 2016 12:14:57 GMT
I think that Remainders hope for exactly the same in the event of a vote to Leave!
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on May 17, 2016 18:08:30 GMT
Leaving the EU during a period of uncertainty over Europe's security is madness.
If Trump becomes the U.S. president, quite apart from our relationship with the USA taking a turn for the worse that will take a generation to heal, Trump will pull the plug on the 75% of NATO's funding the U.S.A provides. Europeans aren't willing to spend on their own or each other's defence and all that will be left if NATO loses US funding is the EU to keep Europe undivided in the face of a resurgent Russia and instability across the middle east. If we leave the EU others are bound to follow and the old European divisions will surface again.
The EU for me has always been primarily about peace between European States. We leave the EU and we could be the tipping point that causes Europe to spiral back into the dark ages again of scarcity and conflict.
|
|
Sandypants
Reserve team star
Posts: 4,059
Favourite CUFC player: Harrison Dunk
|
Post by Sandypants on May 18, 2016 5:16:24 GMT
I really don't understand the point of repeating referendums. You have a vote, the winner wins, fanny's your uncle (but only on a Tuesday), and that's the end of it. That goes for both sides. It should never be a case of keeping at it until you win, throwing more and more propaganda at the problem until you get the result you want. I rather despise David Cameron, but he won the election and I wouldn't clamour for endless revotes until he lost. You grit your teeth and get on with it, knowing that the majority merely disagreed... Even if you vehemently believe their stance is nihilistic. That's just how democracy goes, no?
|
|
Amba Gambla
Youth team substitute
We're too good to go down!
Posts: 463
Favourite CUFC player: Steve Spriggs
|
Post by Amba Gambla on May 18, 2016 15:42:59 GMT
Well I'm fed up with the whole referendum thing. I'm not voting and wouldn't vote in any repeat!
|
|
|
Post by charliecufc on May 18, 2016 16:27:28 GMT
I really don't understand the point of repeating referendums. You have a vote, the winner wins, fanny's your uncle (but only on a Tuesday), and that's the end of it. That goes for both sides. It should never be a case of keeping at it until you win, throwing more and more propaganda at the problem until you get the result you want. I rather despise David Cameron, but he won the election and I wouldn't clamour for endless revotes until he lost. You grit your teeth and get on with it, knowing that the majority merely disagreed... Even if you vehemently believe their stance is nihilistic. That's just how democracy goes, no? Yup, Farage is being a buffoon. Particularly as he and his fellow UKIP MEP's (rightly) made a song and dance about Ireland's second referendum after its electorate gave the 'wrong' answer on the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. Shame the EU doesn't play by the same rules eh? Moving on, I'd be interested to hear the view of the remainers on the pretty astonishing claims regarding the pay of EU employees made in this video: "There are 10,000 people paid more than David Cameron. That's 1 in 5 of everyone who works for the EU" I've done a little digging on this and it appears to be true. Although it refers to David Cameron's net salary of around £80,000-ish. Naturally, EU employees have their own low tax rates and expenses which keeps their pay packet above that of the PM even if their gross is lower. The UK accounts for roughly one tenth of the EU's population, meaning we currently have 1,000 EU employees with jobs that are apparently more important than David Cameron's. You could perhaps put this down to colossal inefficiency, but the fact that the EU has repeatedly refused to disclose any more information on the pay of its workers (surprise surprise) would suggest that something a little more seedy is going on. Indeed, we only know as much as we do because the relevant documents were leaked to the press. i know some remainers will start talking about a 'reformed Europe' with greater transparency or whatever, but what leverage are we going to have if we vote to remain? What can we threaten them with if our membership has been assured for another generation?
|
|
utopia
Reserve team regular
Posts: 3,065
|
Post by utopia on May 19, 2016 15:01:35 GMT
How many civil servants in the UK earn more than £80k per year? It will be a lot more than 10,000. Not least because there are 423,000 of them. www.civilservant.org.uk/information-numbers.htmlThe Prime Minister actually earns a salary of £145,000, which probably does equate to £80k after tax. Plus very generous benefits, including extraordinarily generous pension and free accomodation. MPs expenses are not exactly parsimonious either. Using £80k as a comparitor is typical politician's sleight of hand. It might be more pertinent to ask why the UK needs 8.4 times as many civil servants as the EU if the latter exerts that the likes of Farage claim.
|
|
|
Post by charliecufc on May 19, 2016 16:52:03 GMT
How many civil servants in the UK earn more than £80k per year? It will be a lot more than 10,000. Not least because there are 423,000 of them. www.civilservant.org.uk/information-numbers.htmlThe Prime Minister actually earns a salary of £145,000, which probably does equate to £80k after tax. Plus very generous benefits, including extraordinarily generous pension and free accomodation. MPs expenses are not exactly parsimonious either. Using £80k as a comparitor is typical politician's sleight of hand. It might be more pertinent to ask why the UK needs 8.4 times as many civil servants as the EU if the latter exerts that the likes of Farage claim. Interesting, cheers. Although a quick Google search shows roughly 300 civil servants earn more than the PM's net salary. Also, I'm not here to defend Farage's arguments - obviously domestic governments have a wider remit than the EU (hence the larger number of employees). I suppose the real question is how many more quangocrats would we have to take on if we left? I'm not convinced we'd need any as we already have duplicate departments covering business regulation, company law, climate change and foreign aid etc. What does the EU do that is so unique? Either way, we certainly wouldn't need anywhere near an extra 1,000 taking home more than David Cameron.
|
|
|
Post by C4MBU on May 23, 2016 22:10:40 GMT
Leaving the EU during a period of uncertainty over Europe's security is madness. If Trump becomes the U.S. president, quite apart from our relationship with the USA taking a turn for the worse that will take a generation to heal, Trump will pull the plug on the 75% of NATO's funding the U.S.A provides. Europeans aren't willing to spend on their own or each other's defence and all that will be left if NATO loses US funding is the EU to keep Europe undivided in the face of a resurgent Russia and instability across the middle east. If we leave the EU others are bound to follow and the old European divisions will surface again. The EU for me has always been primarily about peace between European States. We leave the EU and we could be the tipping point that causes Europe to spiral back into the dark ages again of scarcity and conflict. The 'period of uncertainty over Europe's security' as you put it is down to the pussy foot 'open doors' immigration policy of the EU and the additional lack of control over certain borders allowing non European 'so called' immigrants (also known as 'refugees') to maraud in and through the European states. 'Idealism' is a weakness just waiting to be exploited. Take Stockholm for example. Now the 'rape capital' of the western world directly related to the young male Muslim population (FACT)! They were allowed to dominate and get out of control due to the socialist 'politically correct' left wing ostriches that denied there was an issue. Europe's 'security issues' are now a direct result of its soft, inadequate and idealistic policies on border control and immigration. Another weakness being exploited.
|
|