cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Jun 2, 2019 13:59:25 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48470623They seemed to have had plenty of support for the protests in London recently so is this sort of action a help or a hindrance? Everything Green is currently uber trendy and Green Party mopped up plenty of votes at the EU elections, but where do you stand on this? Are they running with public opinion and need to keep pressing on, or a bunch of well-intended lefties having a summer of fun before jetting off on the winter skiing holiday? Just wondered how the Greens/Lefties viewed this? From the other side it looks a bit tricky - the Greens have to be careful they protect the momentum they are building, and the ER mob will serve as a reminder of the weirdos and fruitcakes that lurk behind the well-intentioned smokescreen and what a Green vote really looks like. No doubt it will be the same hypocritical mob out in force screeching obscenities at Trump, but I’m sure many will be more than ok about that. Support them or water cannon and arrest them?
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Post by pappasmurf on Jun 3, 2019 9:36:38 GMT
I'd use cannon but not water cannon. They would then be the extinct ones.
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Post by Andrewlang on Jun 3, 2019 10:12:39 GMT
I support them of course.
It's such a shame that direct action needs to be taken in order to highlight something as important as climate change and in an ideal world governments would already have done more than make the odd token gesture. It's remarkable to me that more isn't done on an individual and global level, it's even more remarkable that there are people who want to rewrite the narrative to portray the protesters as the bad guys.
I don't think it's enough just to cut emission, we also need natural climate solutions through restoring nature. By committing to re-wilding the country we can absorb tonnes of carbon dioxide every year.
Andrew
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cambsno
Youth team star
Posts: 1,031
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Post by cambsno on Jun 3, 2019 11:09:04 GMT
No other words other than scum and hope they throw the book at them.
What about the misery it will cause to people going about their daily business and families. One thing is for sure, it will not help normal people become more green.
These people are idiots. Firstly, the UK could zero emissions and it would have a pathetic affect on the global scale, Chine, India, Russia etc... are the ones who affect. Also, they are targeting the easy things. If I was to give up meat I may save 1 tonne of CO2 a year, give up flights, some more. But each child is responsible for 50+ tonnes a year so rather than give up meat and planes, these idiots should give up breeding if they are that serious about it!
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Post by Andrewlang on Jun 3, 2019 12:20:50 GMT
"What about the misery it will cause to people going about their daily business and families"
What about the misery brought about by climate change? A bit of short term sacrfice for long term gain seems acceptable to me. I accept it's not ideal but if the trade is millions of people displaced by floods or some bloke not being able to go on holiday it seems obvious to me - we have to find other ways. It's not going to be easy or even ideal but the alternative isn't an option any more and ignorance isn't an excuse.
"If I was to give up meat I may save 1 tonne of CO2 a year, give up flights, some more. But each child is responsible for 50+ tonnes a year so rather than give up meat and planes, these idiots should give up breeding if they are that serious about it!"
The only idiots are those who do nothing. To me it seems like a bit of a stretch to argue that if somebody has kids then their green ethics have been compromised. We should all at least try to do something even if it's contradicted by our other actions - we should be looking at ways of living a carbon neutral lifestyle...including the way we raise our kids, the way we travel, what we eat, the products we use, etc.
Andrew
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Jun 3, 2019 14:10:21 GMT
"What about the misery it will cause to people going about their daily business and families"What about the misery brought about by climate change? A bit of short term sacrfice for long term gain seems acceptable to me. I accept it's not ideal but if the trade is millions of people displaced by floods or some bloke not being able to go on holiday it seems obvious to me - we have to find other ways. It's not going to be easy or even ideal but the alternative isn't an option any more and ignorance isn't an excuse. "If I was to give up meat I may save 1 tonne of CO2 a year, give up flights, some more. But each child is responsible for 50+ tonnes a year so rather than give up meat and planes, these idiots should give up breeding if they are that serious about it!"The only idiots are those who do nothing. To me it seems like a bit of a stretch to argue that if somebody has kids then their green ethics have been compromised. We should all at least try to do something even if it's contradicted by our other actions - we should be looking at ways of living a carbon neutral lifestyle...including the way we raise our kids, the way we travel, what we eat, the products we use, etc. Andrew That all seems perfectly reasonable and I’d be inclined to agree. But, the problem as I see it is the Greens just aren’t reasonable at all. “it's not ideal but if the trade is millions of people displaced by floods or some bloke not being able to go on holiday” - That might seem fair enough, but the moderate inconvenience of stopping some bloke go on holiday would never be enough for the Greens. The economy is of little interest to the extremists and they won’t rest until we’re all living in their fantasy land. They’re fortunate as their superior ideology doesn’t need to stack up under the microscope of economic scrutiny. Quite convenient really. Going to be interesting watching this.
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Post by Actually Valid Username on Jun 4, 2019 8:30:07 GMT
I'm quite involved in my local XR group and would encourage anyone reading this to look up your closest one and go to a meeting. You can find yours here: rebellion.earth/As alluded to above, lots of people (mistakenly) believe XR and environmentalism is about individual actions and choices we make (not flying, not having children etc). That is fundamentally NOT what XR is about. We are facing a global problem that requires a global solution. 1 person reducing their carbon footprint to 0 will make no difference to the climate catastrophe that we're currently going through and will get worse in the next 50 years. Instead XR has 3 aims: Tell the truth: governments need to be realistic about climate change and the effect it will have on our lives (i.e. entirely ruining them). It was a major win that the govt declared a climate emergency. Act now: reduce net carbon emissions to 0 by 2025 People's assembly: set up a people's assembly to figure out how we get to net carbon 0 by 2025. These people will be selected randomly across the country and will hear from experts on the climate and then decide how we get to net carbon 0. None of the above is about planes etc, you can't have an individual solution to a systemic problem. And the poster above is right, net carbon neutral is useless if other countries don't follow suit and that is why there is a massive international movement in XR to support and facilitate climate action across borders. At the moment we've got 10 years to halt climate disaster or it's too late for all of us. Once the arctic ice starts to melt and methane and CO2 trapped in there releases into the atmosphere it will only accelerate the heating of the planet. So yeah. Get involved, anyone and everyone is welcome and we're all here to make the planet a place that can support life for the future, so we've all got an active interest in ending 'business as usual'.
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martin018
Youth team substitute
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Post by martin018 on Jun 4, 2019 8:54:47 GMT
Surely the countries to target for climate change are mainly in Asia, what we do is fairly irrelevant if , say, China or India doesn't comply. Try protesting in Tianamem Square!!!
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cambsno
Youth team star
Posts: 1,031
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Post by cambsno on Jun 4, 2019 10:07:15 GMT
I'm quite involved in my local XR group and would encourage anyone reading this to look up your closest one and go to a meeting. You can find yours here: rebellion.earth/As alluded to above, lots of people (mistakenly) believe XR and environmentalism is about individual actions and choices we make (not flying, not having children etc). That is fundamentally NOT what XR is about. We are facing a global problem that requires a global solution. 1 person reducing their carbon footprint to 0 will make no difference to the climate catastrophe that we're currently going through and will get worse in the next 50 years. Instead XR has 3 aims: Tell the truth: governments need to be realistic about climate change and the effect it will have on our lives (i.e. entirely ruining them). It was a major win that the govt declared a climate emergency. Act now: reduce net carbon emissions to 0 by 2025 People's assembly: set up a people's assembly to figure out how we get to net carbon 0 by 2025. These people will be selected randomly across the country and will hear from experts on the climate and then decide how we get to net carbon 0. None of the above is about planes etc, you can't have an individual solution to a systemic problem. And the poster above is right, net carbon neutral is useless if other countries don't follow suit and that is why there is a massive international movement in XR to support and facilitate climate action across borders. At the moment we've got 10 years to halt climate disaster or it's too late for all of us. Once the arctic ice starts to melt and methane and CO2 trapped in there releases into the atmosphere it will only accelerate the heating of the planet. So yeah. Get involved, anyone and everyone is welcome and we're all here to make the planet a place that can support life for the future, so we've all got an active interest in ending 'business as usual'. Climate change is not the disaster you make out, its the population boom we are having that is. We can halt climate change tomorrow, but population is increasing at an alarming rate. Lots more water and food to produce, space and raw materials and that will lead to conflicts.
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Jun 4, 2019 15:20:57 GMT
I'm quite involved in my local XR group and would encourage anyone reading this to look up your closest one and go to a meeting. You can find yours here: rebellion.earth/As alluded to above, lots of people (mistakenly) believe XR and environmentalism is about individual actions and choices we make (not flying, not having children etc). That is fundamentally NOT what XR is about. We are facing a global problem that requires a global solution. 1 person reducing their carbon footprint to 0 will make no difference to the climate catastrophe that we're currently going through and will get worse in the next 50 years. Instead XR has 3 aims: Tell the truth: governments need to be realistic about climate change and the effect it will have on our lives (i.e. entirely ruining them). It was a major win that the govt declared a climate emergency. Act now: reduce net carbon emissions to 0 by 2025 People's assembly: set up a people's assembly to figure out how we get to net carbon 0 by 2025. These people will be selected randomly across the country and will hear from experts on the climate and then decide how we get to net carbon 0. None of the above is about planes etc, you can't have an individual solution to a systemic problem. And the poster above is right, net carbon neutral is useless if other countries don't follow suit and that is why there is a massive international movement in XR to support and facilitate climate action across borders. At the moment we've got 10 years to halt climate disaster or it's too late for all of us. Once the arctic ice starts to melt and methane and CO2 trapped in there releases into the atmosphere it will only accelerate the heating of the planet. So yeah. Get involved, anyone and everyone is welcome and we're all here to make the planet a place that can support life for the future, so we've all got an active interest in ending 'business as usual'. Really?? Is that the XR PR spin? You’d better have a word with your mates then because someone is talking bollocks. “Extinction Rebellion activists are threatening to shut down Heathrow Airport with drones. The climate change protest group vowed to stage a one-day demonstration in June and then 10 further days in July - unless the government cancels plans for expanding the airport.” And: “The plan to use drones was revealed in a leaked consultation document shared between group members.” That is an absolute f*cking disgrace. And this gem: “Unless the government cancels plans for expanding the airport”. Fu*k you XR. So you’ve decided what government policy should be and will hold the government to ransom until you get your way? That’s tantamount to terrorism in my book and those responsible should be locked up. So “none of this is about planes”? Really? Promote the acceptable face of XR all you want, but the radicals will always undermine the positive work. The lunatics will always be running that asylum.
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Post by pappasmurf on Jun 4, 2019 17:15:50 GMT
..... 'Climate Catastrophe".....give me a f..... break.
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Jun 4, 2019 18:11:56 GMT
I hate how the environment is becoming a political issue when it should be something we can all get behind.
Not everyone on the right has to be a climate emergency denying idiot nor does everyone on the left have to be a tree hugging hippie.
It's bad enough this decisive political environment stuffing up something relatively irrelevant like Brexit never mind the actual environment.
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nutsaboutamber
Reserve team regular
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Post by nutsaboutamber on Jun 13, 2019 7:07:07 GMT
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Jun 13, 2019 9:23:34 GMT
It’s terrible what is going on and we are all vulnerable, some more so than others.
My beef with XR is that however serious they may feel these issues are, it doesn’t give them superpower over everyone and everything.
Protest away all you like. But block roads, close airports and get arrested. And get prosecuted. And ringleaders planning on holding the government to ransom by closing airports unless policy is changed should be locked up like any terrorist would be.
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neilmc4
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Post by neilmc4 on Jun 13, 2019 15:05:55 GMT
Only time will tell how people like Extinction Rebellion end up being viewed. History is littered with examples of campaigners who , having exhausted the regular channels of opposition , had to resort to more extreme measures to pursue what are now regarded as completely legitimate and worthy goals. Nobody nowadays (apart from a handful in the lunatic fringe of the Republican Party) would seriously claim that giving women the vote was a terrible idea - but how many people realise that the Suffragettes only achieved their goal by embarking upon a campaign of terrorism , including arson and firebombing , after Parliament rejected dozens of attempts to extend the Franchise by legal means? I can remember a time when senior politicians in this country were quite happy to label Nelson Mandela as a terrorist because of the methods he and his supporters used to oppose apartheid - and how does history judge that particular struggle now? Climate change and its consequenses for our evolution as a species is undoubtedly a topic to be treated with the utmost seriousness. I am not defending Extinction Rebellion or their tactics (some of which strike me as self-defeating) but as a history graduate I have a strong suspicion that future generations will look back on this era and question how so many people could be so unutterably stupid as to ignore what was staring them in the face.
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