martin018
Youth team substitute
Posts: 589
Favourite CUFC player: Michael Heathcote
Favourite CUFC match: U's 4 - 0 against Sheff. Wed FA Cup 1990
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Post by martin018 on Sept 4, 2019 7:44:45 GMT
Hopefully. First time I won't have voted labour.
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cambsno
Youth team star
Posts: 1,031
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Post by cambsno on Sept 4, 2019 11:12:41 GMT
The referendum was democratic. What’s happening now with these selfish remoaners is not. We need to deliver Brexit otherwise democracy is dead and selfish arrogant people get what they want and not what was voted for. Maybe you can tell me what Brexit really is then? No deal, Norway, Mays deal... that's the trouble. If people knew we were likely to go down no deal, 60%+ would have voted remain. Technically Norway deal means we leave the Eu so lets do that then, as we are all happy?
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Zinedine
Youth team substitute
Posts: 661
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Post by Zinedine on Sept 4, 2019 13:45:27 GMT
The referendum was democratic. What’s happening now with these selfish remoaners is not. We need to deliver Brexit otherwise democracy is dead and selfish arrogant people get what they want and not what was voted for. Most of the Tory rebels last night have previously voted for Brexit to happen, in some cases on three occasions. If it was down to them we would be out by now. Your anger would be better directed at some of the morons in Parliament who supposedly want Brexit the most (including that embarrassment of a PM) but who have repeatedly stopped it happening.
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martin018
Youth team substitute
Posts: 589
Favourite CUFC player: Michael Heathcote
Favourite CUFC match: U's 4 - 0 against Sheff. Wed FA Cup 1990
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Post by martin018 on Sept 4, 2019 15:23:34 GMT
Sorry but Corbyn would be more embarrassing. He is a eurosceptic but is so desperate for power would sell his mother to get there. We voted to leave and yet again remoaner MP’s think they can ignore us. Let’s just leave, no customs union, no single market, no freedom of movement.
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Sept 4, 2019 16:50:01 GMT
Let’s just leave, no customs union, no single market, no freedom of movement. Can you explain the benefits of those things? What would you do with the Irish border?
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martin018
Youth team substitute
Posts: 589
Favourite CUFC player: Michael Heathcote
Favourite CUFC match: U's 4 - 0 against Sheff. Wed FA Cup 1990
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Post by martin018 on Sept 4, 2019 19:51:07 GMT
We would be able to do our own trade deals with the rest of the world, hopefully better ones than the EU negotiates. As for the Irish border, i'd leave it where it is!!!
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Sept 4, 2019 20:27:12 GMT
We would be able to do our own trade deals with the rest of the world, hopefully better ones than the EU negotiates. As for the Irish border, i'd leave it where it is!!! Okay glad to see you've come back, just to clarify, which current deals are you unhappy with? And who do you foresee a better deal with? How do you propose controlling freedom of movement of people and goods into the UK with the current Irish border situation?
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Post by JimboBaggins on Sept 4, 2019 20:42:07 GMT
At some point the Brexit people have to realise the Irish reunification and Scottish independence are inevitable. The demographics are shifting that way and Brexit will only speed things up.
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Zinedine
Youth team substitute
Posts: 661
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Post by Zinedine on Sept 4, 2019 22:33:11 GMT
Sorry but Corbyn would be more embarrassing. He is a eurosceptic but is so desperate for power would sell his mother to get there. We voted to leave and yet again remoaner MP’s think they can ignore us. Let’s just leave, no customs union, no single market, no freedom of movement. It's got nothing to do with Corbyn though, we're talking about your weird assertion that there's some kind of plot against Brexit, when in fact Brexit has repeatedly been blocked by Brexiters. They didn't have a plan themselves, and when May came up with one which would have left us outside the single market and ended freedom of movement, they repeatedly voted it down. If the project fails (no deal being the ultimate failure) they'll be the ones who have betrayed the leave voters.
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moose
Youth team substitute
Posts: 558
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Post by moose on Sept 5, 2019 6:49:05 GMT
Sorry but Corbyn would be more embarrassing. He is a eurosceptic but is so desperate for power would sell his mother to get there. We voted to leave and yet again remoaner MP’s think they can ignore us. Let’s just leave, no customs union, no single market, no freedom of movement. As you might judge from the other responses, the concern is that Leavers: (i) are light on detail of what Brexit means in practice (Dominic Cummings and Vote Leave deliberately did not spell out a specific vision of Brexit as they knew it would cost votes and be open to attack by Remainers); and (ii) have a tendency to re-write history (your demand to leave the customs union was not mentioned in the Government’s pre-referendum leaflet, that was a red line that Theresa May imposed as part of her negotiations). No deal doesn’t solve the Irish border issue, it just ignores it (which is incredibly dangerous). I see no other solution than a referendum in which the options are: (i) no deal; and (ii) remain.
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Sept 5, 2019 7:28:52 GMT
The referendum was democratic. What’s happening now with these selfish remoaners is not. We need to deliver Brexit otherwise democracy is dead and selfish arrogant people get what they want and not what was voted for. Maybe you can tell me what Brexit really is then? No deal, Norway, Mays deal... that's the trouble. /quote] Martin, at some stage every leaver has to accept that and ask themselves the question. If you knew what sort of Brexit you really wanted then you’d have a better understanding of why it hasn’t happened. Zinedine just told you that “Brexit has been repeatedly blocked by Brexiteers” and explained why. I just don’t understand why leavers think the only reason we haven’t left already is because of remainers. To be honest, the reluctance to accept we have to ask ourselves ‘that’ question and the fundamental lack of understanding that it is not just remainers that have stopped this happening just undermines any credibility leavers have I’m afraid.
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Post by pedrosacapuntas on Sept 5, 2019 8:24:14 GMT
Sorry but Corbyn would be more embarrassing. He is a eurosceptic but is so desperate for power would sell his mother to get there. Boris is literally the PM.
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martin018
Youth team substitute
Posts: 589
Favourite CUFC player: Michael Heathcote
Favourite CUFC match: U's 4 - 0 against Sheff. Wed FA Cup 1990
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Post by martin018 on Sept 5, 2019 13:10:27 GMT
i think we are always going to disagree on this. I voted leave and know what i wanted but it is up to politicians to deliver and sort out the why's and how's. With the Irish border there must be some way to use similar smart technology as is used at the ports. I guess i am just angry at the vote being ignored. Perhaps i should just stick to football as the remainers will always believe they are right. I don't believe i'm a little englander and have historically always voted labour, as did a lot of brexiteers. Corbyn to me is a step too far.
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utopia
Reserve team regular
Posts: 3,065
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Post by utopia on Sept 5, 2019 15:45:44 GMT
Sorry but Corbyn would be more embarrassing. He is a eurosceptic but is so desperate for power would sell his mother to get there. We voted to leave and yet again remoaner MP’s think they can ignore us. Let’s just leave, no customs union, no single market, no freedom of movement. It's got nothing to do with Corbyn though, we're talking about your weird assertion that there's some kind of plot against Brexit, when in fact Brexit has repeatedly been blocked by Brexiters. They didn't have a plan themselves, and when May came up with one which would have left us outside the single market and ended freedom of movement, they repeatedly voted it down. If the project fails (no deal being the ultimate failure) they'll be the ones who have betrayed the leave voters. May's deal had no end date and no way of getting to one. Once in the backstop the only way out was with the agreement of the EU. It relied fully on the EU acting in good faith. Something that they have proven repeatedly to be incapable of in their dealings with us and others. Just as many of our politicians have. Eg all those who stood under the Conservative or Labour Parties 2017 manifestos promising to leave the EU and have done everything in their power to avoid it. Their election was morally fraudulent if not legally so. Other examples of UK politicians acting in bad faith was the Lib Dems voting to increase University Tuition Fees in return for their seats around the cabinet table. Especially the chap who joined the Lib Dems from the Tories this week. Acting in bad faith is almost a prerequisite of being a politician. May's deal was designed to keep us tangled up in the EU indefinitely in the hope that we would eventually have enough and rejoin officially. Boris Johnson, for all his faults, has been the first person to actually attempt to enact the referendum result. No doubt his primary aim is to win an election. All his actions are focused on that. Hence the need to remodel the Tory Party into a group who support achieving Brexit. The Conservative Party cannot win an election again until they're trusted to implement Brexit. Thus they must purge remainers. Labour are a shambles and aren't attempting to reform themselves out of it. Their policy is that there cannot be no deal, that they will negotiate a better deal and then put that to a referendum with remain as the other option. That is utterly insane. How can you negotiate a better deal with someone/something that would rather you took the other option? Their policy until the beginning of this week was to have an election. However, they're now petrified as they will get hammered. I voted to remain out of narrow self-interest. Not a chance now. These politicians have proven themselves to be the worst of our nation. The BBC also with their selective and biased reporting - time to shut it down or at least cancel the licence fee. Disingenuous to the core. Many remainers believe that we can go back to how things were before. They're wrong on two counts. Firstly the EU must morph into a transfer union in order to survive. It cannot be remain as we are/were. The EU economy as a whole is stagnant, moribund and is propped up by extraordinarily low interest rates; it will fall apart some time soon. Low interest rates cause malinvestment and the EU's negative interest rates prove that has gone beyond any reasonable point. Deutsche Bank is now pleading for no further cuts and I don't want to be bailing them out when they go. Secondly, if we now remain, it will be a festering sore on our politics for a generation. Every election there will be Brexit Party and similar candidates taking a large share of the vote. There will be civil disobedience and tax avoidance. A lot of people are in a remain bubble but talk to leavers and they are furious. The genie will not go back in the bottle. The UK cannot possibly agree to the further integration that the EU will require. Parliament should look to history and remember that they are there to represent the people not their self-interest “You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately...Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”That is a long enough rant!
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Sept 5, 2019 16:13:48 GMT
i think we are always going to disagree on this. I voted leave and know what i wanted but it is up to politicians to deliver and sort out the why's and how's. With the Irish border there must be some way to use similar smart technology as is used at the ports. I guess i am just angry at the vote being ignored. Perhaps i should just stick to football as the remainers will always believe they are right. I don't believe i'm a little englander and have historically always voted labour, as did a lot of brexiteers. Corbyn to me is a step too far. Martin, don’t give up just because it feels as though you are under attack. You’re entitled to your view and I empathise with much of what you say. The problem is, Remain is pretty much one dimensional. It’s easy. Everyone knows what Remain means. But whether we like it or not, there are variations of Leave that Leavers themselves can’t agree on and once you have divisions, that’s it. Divide and conquer is easy. I think fundamentally there were simply too many Remain MP’s and their personal preferences have leaked out and they’ve seized the opportunity (dirty word on this thread). Whether that is betrayal, or whatever term you choose to use, is open to debate. It was the Leavers that couldn’t agree on what Brexit means that scuppered this, not Remainers. I do share some of your views though. The EU has morphed and mutated into something it was never intended to be. It’s not a place I think we should be and ‘proving’ independence is an even shittier place to be doesn’t suddenly make the EU utopia (The anti-EU backlash of remaining something that should be discussed now, not when it’s too late). If you want to leave irrespective of the circumstances and consequences, to be honest, after this shitshow, I don’t really blame you. And as for your thoughts on Corbyn, I agree. God help us if ever he were to become PM. That said, I’m not sure you can lay any of this Brexit debacle at his door and Conservative voters are hardly in a position to throw stones. The shambles that is the Conservative party only serves to highlight the hideous mistake Labour made choosing Corbyn. They should be walking this. Whatever happens, short, medium or long term, no outcomes look particularly good at all. What an utter mess.
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