Stop XR's Illegal Roadblock

[Mark of Carnage]

Feb 21, 2020 21:49:28 GMT lesj said:

Feb 21, 2020 19:15:02 GMT Mark of Carnage said:

Speaking as someone who has been essentially neutral on the XR situation in Cambridge. From my understanding of events I think the police acted in a proportionate way and got it spot on. I don't get the vitriol directed at them or the XR protesters for exercising their right to protest but do think XR made an error of judgement in digging up the lawn and the Barclays thing. It just seemed to confuse the message and was clearly an act of criminal damage. Daft strategy that seemed to court arrest but hey ho at least the road block will have given pause for thought to anyone with half a brain that climate change is the most pressing issue of our time and we need to stop all this footdragging on addressing the issue.

And what makes you think that we were not already aware ?

I haven't said we aren't aware. I just think the protest succeded in making us ponder and consider the pressing need for action over climate change. The fact that we have this thread is evidence of that. I was implying that some of us can't see the wood for the trees and that saddens me.

[lesj]

I think that you will find that the majority of the posters on this thread are not against the demonstration


but the way in which they are going about it, causing criminal damage and causing innocent people that are trying to to get to work inconvenience and expense by blocking the road .

[cambcam]

Feb 21, 2020 20:51:11 GMT kentishu said:

Feb 21, 2020 19:12:34 GMT cambcam said:

Dear XR Cambridge, can you please discuss the realities of getting carried away and being arrested at your next meeting,

Getting arrested isn’t fun. Consider this scenario, it could happen to you:

You decide to protest at a Cambridge site. You commit and offence and get arrested. Your address becomes known and an organised mob of antagonised members of the public threaten you. They phone your work. You are suspended and might (will shortly) lose your job. Your innocent but ‘guilty by association’ housemates are terrified. They have to answer uncomfortable questions as they too are having their employers informed. The police tell you to take the threats seriously and advise you to leave immediately. You move, your innocent housemates move.

You might (will) lose your job. You might lose your livelihood. A conviction might prevent you from following your chosen path. You’ve lost your home and your friends. Your housemates are terrified. They’ve lost their home. You’ve cost them money. You’ve caused them untold stress and misery. Your selfishness knows no bounds.

You’ve got to find a new job, a new home and new frien.... no wait, XR are here for you. We are your new friends.

Absolute wankers the lot of you.

I don't think anyone from XR reads this message board so I am not sure what this is trying to achieve?

What it does show is that XR members risk a lot when they protest. But they do it because they think the cause is worth it. It also highlights how intolerant many people are in Johnson's brave new England.

We've seen posters on this board incite the violence laden threats that protesters are now receiving. That is just as illegal as the criminal damage caused by XR.

Kentish

There is at least one Cambridge XR member that is on this forum. But that’s not really the point.

Cambridge XR will already be well aware of all that has been said plus other detail best left from a public forum.

[cambcam]

Feb 21, 2020 21:06:12 GMT TallPaddy said:

Feb 21, 2020 19:12:34 GMT cambcam said:

Dear XR Cambridge, can you please discuss the realities of getting carried away and being arrested at your next meeting,

Getting arrested isn’t fun. Consider this scenario, it could happen to you:

You decide to protest at a Cambridge site. You commit and offence and get arrested. Your address becomes known and an organised mob of antagonised members of the public threaten you. They phone your work. You are suspended and might (will shortly) lose your job. Your innocent but ‘guilty by association’ housemates are terrified. They have to answer uncomfortable questions as they too are having their employers informed. The police tell you to take the threats seriously and advise you to leave immediately. You move, your innocent housemates move.

You might (will) lose your job. You might lose your livelihood. A conviction might prevent you from following your chosen path. You’ve lost your home and your friends. Your housemates are terrified. They’ve lost their home. You’ve cost them money. You’ve caused them untold stress and misery. Your selfishness knows no bounds.

You’ve got to find a new job, a new home and new frien.... no wait, XR are here for you. We are your new friends.

Absolute wankers the lot of you.

The "absolute" wankers in this scenario would be the organised mob of... people threatening violence.

You can’t assume a position of arrogant superiority and use blackmail to achieve you goals whilst antagonising people that don’t share your views. We are seeing the extremes on both sides being drawn out now,

It’s utterly naive to think something like this wouldn’t happen.

[cambsno]

Anyone seen the cars parked up in the demo, owned by XR people including a diesel transit. Now whhere do they refuel at??? Supporting the very places the are protesting about!! Hypocrites/morons.

If any of us did half the things they have done this week they would be arrested, yet only a small number of them have? Inept policing or taking backhanders?

[Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage]

Feb 22, 2020 8:43:23 GMT cambsno said:

Anyone seen the cars parked up in the demo, owned by XR people including a diesel transit. Now whhere do they refuel at??? Supporting the very places the are protesting about!! Hypocrites/morons.

If any of us did half the things they have done this week they would be arrested, yet only a small number of them have? Inept policing or taking backhanders?

Point A) well done for making me do this but I've for the first time clicked on the XR website and looked at their aims, I don't see ban all cars immediately on there. I'm sure they would like to drive fully electric cars but like most people are inhibited by the cost differential & the lack of infrastructure. Maybe they believe that protesting could speed up action to alter this? Here's the website link if you want to take a look: rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

Point B) as the police explained, the law as it stands means that people's right to protest usurps lots of other laws & it's only when certain lines have been crossed that arrests can be made, both left and right use this, Mr Yaxley Lennon's lot get away with stuff you or I would be locked up for if we just walked down the street doing for example.

[keepitamber]

For all those who signed the petition, sadly it did not stop XR. You may need to take direct action like a protest or roadblock to get your point heard.

[Wingco's Boy]

It's not just about the bloody roadblock. The police have been keen to concentrate on that, as they can stress the legal issues involved. These ecowankers also wrecked a council meeting, dug up the Trinity lawn, dumped what they had dug up in a commercial property and did other things besides. All criminal, and all done while the police stood by and let them. Sure, there have since been arrests, but the police were utterly craven in standing by and allowing crime to take place while they watched. Nick Dean, the Chief Constable, should hang his head in shame.

[lesj]

It's obvious that something needs to be done about climate change BUT & it's a big but

They were basically doing 3 things wrong.

1/ They were going the wrong way about it

2/ They were targeting the wrong place

3/ They were targeting the wrong people


The people of which they were causing the most inconvenience to were the average person in the street that were just trying to get to work.

These people have got no power to succumb to their demands . so there fore it was a complete waste of time .

The people that they need to target are the government or the MP'S in general.

They are the people that have the power to change things


So , they should have demonstrated either outside Downing street or the houses of Parliament or both

[Mark of Carnage]

Feb 27, 2020 21:54:23 GMT Wingco's Boy said:

It's not just about the bloody roadblock. The police have been keen to concentrate on that, as they can stress the legal issues involved. These ecowankers also wrecked a council meeting, dug up the Trinity lawn, dumped what they had dug up in a commercial property and did other things besides. All criminal, and all done while the police stood by and let them. Sure, there have since been arrests, but the police were utterly craven in standing by and allowing crime to take place while they watched. Nick Dean, the Chief Constable, should hang his head in shame.

I think the police did their job superbly. Their powers are limited and can only act lawfully. Apart from the alleged criminal damage to the lawn, all the protesters did appeared to be legal under HRA articles 11 (freedom of assembly) and 10 (freedom of expression) as far as I can see so no cause for arrest. There was however a clear duty to make arrests following the lawn incident and that was done. The road block protest appeared to go smoothly from a legal protest perspective. It's worth a reminder that no one has committed a crime until they are convicted.

[moose]

Feb 28, 2020 9:15:30 GMT Mark of Carnage said:

It's worth a reminder that no one has committed a crime until they are convicted.

For some reason that sentence annoyed me. There are a lot of unsolved crimes in this world, that doesn't mean that no one committed them.

[Jerry1971]

Feb 28, 2020 9:15:30 GMT Mark of Carnage said:

Feb 27, 2020 21:54:23 GMT Wingco's Boy said:

It's not just about the bloody roadblock. The police have been keen to concentrate on that, as they can stress the legal issues involved. These ecowankers also wrecked a council meeting, dug up the Trinity lawn, dumped what they had dug up in a commercial property and did other things besides. All criminal, and all done while the police stood by and let them. Sure, there have since been arrests, but the police were utterly craven in standing by and allowing crime to take place while they watched. Nick Dean, the Chief Constable, should hang his head in shame.

I think the police did their job superbly. Their powers are limited and can only act lawfully. Apart from the alleged criminal damage to the lawn, all the protesters did appeared to be legal under HRA articles 11 (freedom of assembly) and 10 (freedom of expression) as far as I can see so no cause for arrest. There was however a clear duty to make arrests following the lawn incident and that was done. The road block protest appeared to go smoothly from a legal protest perspective. It's worth a reminder that no one has committed a crime until they are convicted.

No Mark, the Police didn’t handle this superbly, and in fact they failed miserably. The Superintendent in charge of Cambridge City policing completely failed to understand the legal position and relied heavily on College of Policing (COP) guidance rather than relying on the law. COP guidance is just that - guidance, it is not legally binding. It was this guidance which meant too much emphasis was placed on upholding the Human Rights Act ahead of the Highways Act, which is why Cambridge was hugely disrupted for a week. Superintendent Sutherland then had the gall to claim that the disruption wasn’t too bad and things were flowing, a statement which was naive at best. So many people just stayed at home. Clearly the Police also didn’t monitor the chaos on Hills Road to where traffic illegally obstructed on Trumpington Road had decanted to.

Above all, the Police facilitated and ignored mob rule over the rights of law abiding people. It was a disgraceful failure of leadership and intellect.

And was this environmental or social justice anarchism? I’d argue the latter. I can’t see why environmentalists would wish to rip up lawns, increase pollution or obstruct fellow citizens.

[Wingco's Boy]

Superb post, Jerry.

[Jerry1971]

Feb 28, 2020 21:52:52 GMT Wingco's Boy said:

Superb post, Jerry.

Thank you! I’m clearly still traumatised by the events of last week.

[cambsno]

Feb 28, 2020 9:15:30 GMT Mark of Carnage said:

Feb 27, 2020 21:54:23 GMT Wingco's Boy said:

It's not just about the bloody roadblock. The police have been keen to concentrate on that, as they can stress the legal issues involved. These ecowankers also wrecked a council meeting, dug up the Trinity lawn, dumped what they had dug up in a commercial property and did other things besides. All criminal, and all done while the police stood by and let them. Sure, there have since been arrests, but the police were utterly craven in standing by and allowing crime to take place while they watched. Nick Dean, the Chief Constable, should hang his head in shame.

I think the police did their job superbly. Their powers are limited and can only act lawfully. Apart from the alleged criminal damage to the lawn, all the protesters did appeared to be legal under HRA articles 11 (freedom of assembly) and 10 (freedom of expression) as far as I can see so no cause for arrest. There was however a clear duty to make arrests following the lawn incident and that was done. The road block protest appeared to go smoothly from a legal protest perspective. It's worth a reminder that no one has committed a crime until they are convicted.

So Jimmy Saville is innocent of any wrong doing then!