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Racism
Jun 24, 2020 7:17:35 GMT
Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 24, 2020 7:17:35 GMT
Please don’t even think of calling me a racist. Like most I was appalled at the death of George Floyd. I do however believe the response, especially in the UK is out of proportion. The mania for the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk do worry me. Firstly, the response is to racism and inequality as a whole - George Floyd's death was a trigger. Secondly, I'd question the priorities of anyone who is more worried about "the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk" than they are about racism.
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Wingco's Boy
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Racism
Jun 24, 2020 8:03:30 GMT
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Post by Wingco's Boy on Jun 24, 2020 8:03:30 GMT
The murders of Trayvon Martin and George Floyd, and nearly 30 years ago the brutal beating of Rodney King, were appalling and unforgivable. I have made it crystal clear that I have been talking about the organisation called Black Lives Matter. You choose to suggest that I am racist. How dare you. Take care with your words mate. Apologies if you got that impression I see how it might have been taken that way so sorry for any offence, sometimes meaning is not clear in written communication. For instance given you have mentioned the Premier League and taking a knee I assumed you were not always just talking about the organisation as, as far as I can tell, they are not affiliated to any organisation - even the logo was designed by Deeney. Apology accepted!
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Racism
Jun 24, 2020 8:47:11 GMT
Post by cufctheparrot on Jun 24, 2020 8:47:11 GMT
Please don’t even think of calling me a racist. Like most I was appalled at the death of George Floyd. I do however believe the response, especially in the UK is out of proportion. The mania for the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk do worry me. Firstly, the response is to racism and inequality as a whole - George Floyd's death was a trigger. Secondly, I'd question the priorities of anyone who is more worried about "the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk" than they are about racism. If you don't see racism in your life, and don't feel any form of racism yourself it’s difficult to have the belief that racism is really an issue to the extent it is being portrayed, and therefore the need for change is low. Whenever I have been out with black or Asian friends or colleagues I have never seen any form of racism, but perhaps I am just lucky to live in an area where it doesn't exist, to a perceptible level, or I am not particularly observant, either way I don't see it. (In fact the only time I have knowingly been in a place where it occurred was at the Abbey and that woman from a few years ago with the player from Wycombe, and in my view she was lucky to be allowed back into the ground after such a short time.) Therefore, statues become more about trying to change something that arguably doesn't need changing. Fair enough take down those statues of former slave owners, even if in the case of Colston they were put up 100 years after his death and the abolition of slavery, so one can only assume that the authorities who erected it the time had taken into account a whole life assessment of the man and decided he was still worthy, but time moves on and what may have been a reasonable assessment then may not be a reasonable assessment now. But when it comes to taking down statues of Robert Peel the founder of the police force, who can realistically argue that a police force is not a good idea, and the wish to remove or damage statues of Britain’s leaders. They are there because they are symbols of our history, good or bad, not because we admire them, and any attempt to change that appears to be an attack on Britain, and more of an anti-establishment movement, than one of just racial inequality. Personally, I'd question the motives of anyone who is willing to support an organisation that endorses acts of criminal damage over democracy.
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shubs
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Post by shubs on Jun 24, 2020 8:49:21 GMT
This is a very sensitive and emotive subject isn’t it? The fact that you guys are all debating it can only be a good thing as it means that recent events have provoked much thought and debate.
As an Indian born in London, My family and I have experienced a lot of racism over the last 50 years or so. I won’t bore you with all the details. Clearly though, things are much better now than when I was a young lad in Cambridge in the ‘70s. Progress has clearly been made but there is still a way to go.
Social media provides the opportunity for cowards and idiots to make racist comments while hiding behind a keyboard, and the recent events in the States are beyond horrific. Recently a black guy died in a police cell in Torquay-I don’t know the details. The fact that it took the Police 20 years to find the killers of Stephen Lawrence is just extraordinary, when apparently the local community knew who had done it within a couple of hours-I have a mate who was living in Eltham at the time.
I am privileged in that I have a decent education, a decent job, I live in a lovely part of the country, and that my 3 girls (who are mixed race as my missus is white English) have never suffered any crap.
Many people from ethnic backgrounds are far less fortunate than me, and for them the struggle for equality and dignity goes on.
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Racism
Jun 24, 2020 14:28:10 GMT
Post by cufcdenmark on Jun 24, 2020 14:28:10 GMT
Recently a black guy died in a police cell in Torquay-I don’t know the details. The fact that it took the Police 20 years to find the killers of Stephen Lawrence is just extraordinary, when apparently the local community knew who had done it within a couple of hours-I have a mate who was living in Eltham at the time. . According to reports, the guy in Torquay became unwell / unresponsive in the cells. Have not seen any reports blaming racism for his death. With Stephen Lawrence, it was more a case of lack of evidence than the police not knowing who did it. If I recall correctly, the two that got charged with his murder were arrested shortly after his murder but they didn't have enough to charge them. It was not until 2010/11 they got the evidence that they needed to get a conviction, which they did. As for the other two or three that were originally arrested, there can't be enough evidence against them or they were innocent.
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Racism
Jun 24, 2020 15:04:49 GMT
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Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 24, 2020 15:04:49 GMT
A public inquiry into the matter found the Met Police to be “institutionally racist”, which probably had some bearing on the case.
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animal
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Post by animal on Jun 24, 2020 18:18:41 GMT
A quick revisit of the MOTD coverage of the Palace FA Cup quarter final at the Abbey will remind a few (or educate) where we were in 1990.
Shubs will remember an attempt or two in the same era to Self-police the NRE, the local plod had bad hearing. Whilst I can never pretend to even imagine what it would be like to be non-white, being spat at for taking an anti racist stance gave me a tint weeney glimpse.
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shubs
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Post by shubs on Jun 24, 2020 19:12:02 GMT
A quick revisit of the MOTD coverage of the Palace FA Cup quarter final at the Abbey will remind a few (or educate) where we were in 1990. Shubs will remember an attempt or two in the same era to Self-police the NRE, the local plod had bad hearing. Whilst I can never pretend to even imagine what it would be like to be non-white, being spat at for taking an anti racist stance gave me a tint weeney glimpse. Yeah, really good call Ian. That Palace game was a disgrace with a number of our knuckleheads taunting and racially abusing the black players in the Palace team throughout the game-Ian Wright, Mark Bright, John Salako etc. A few of us wrote to the club to express our anger and disgust, and to point out that the Police had done absolutely nothing to stop the obscenities. 30 years on we are still waiting for replies to our letters! I seem to remember that the shouting down of idiots making racist comments in the NRE went pretty well. People invariably shut up and often looked embarrassed about their stupidity. As you say, the Police response was swift and consistent-to a man they whistled and looked the other way! Thankfully plenty of progress has been made since then, to the extent that I feel more than happy to take my youngest daughter to watch the mighty Us, home or away. The sort of crass comments from back then seem to have died out at our club as far as I am aware. It’s simply a case of as many of us as possible shouting it down and calling it out the moment it happens. No place for it in the beautiful game or in society as a whole.
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martin018
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Post by martin018 on Jun 25, 2020 0:18:17 GMT
Please don’t even think of calling me a racist. Like most I was appalled at the death of George Floyd. I do however believe the response, especially in the UK is out of proportion. The mania for the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk do worry me. Firstly, the response is to racism and inequality as a whole - George Floyd's death was a trigger. Secondly, I'd question the priorities of anyone who is more worried about "the removal of statues and the agenda of black lives matter uk" than they are about racism. I am not more worried about the statues than the death of George Floyd. I do feel that the movement to have statues removed in the UK is getting out of control.
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Racism
Jun 25, 2020 17:04:20 GMT
Post by cufctheparrot on Jun 25, 2020 17:04:20 GMT
Just wondering were the police breaking up the Brixton street party last night because they are still institutionally racist, or because they were doing their job? and can any of it be attributed to increased bravardo, as a result of the police in Bristol standing and watching as protesters topple the Colston statue?
More disgraceful behavior from fellow Brits to add to that of the last few weeks from both extremes of society.
Lets hope we get back to normal fast.
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imp566
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Racism
Jun 25, 2020 17:14:41 GMT
Post by imp566 on Jun 25, 2020 17:14:41 GMT
As I see it, they were damned if they intervened, damned if they didn't.
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Mark of Carnage
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Racism
Jun 25, 2020 17:30:31 GMT
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jun 25, 2020 17:30:31 GMT
Do people really think Long Bailey's behaviour was racist in re-tweeting Maxine Peakes tweet linked to Peakes article in the Independent where she suggested American coppers might have learned their kneeling technique from the Israeli police.
I think the issue is that Peakes suggestion about the Isreali state was unsubstantied and therefore racist but there is a fine line between peoples perception of what is racist and what isn't when it comes to making references to the behaviour of the Israeli state.
It has got to the point where any critisism of the Israeli state is seen as racist by many.
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Racism
Jun 25, 2020 17:34:57 GMT
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Post by cufctheparrot on Jun 25, 2020 17:34:57 GMT
As I see it, they were damned if they intervened, damned if they didn't. Probably, true, but if the police are seeing something that is illegal then they have to act, which is why their inactions in Bristol could have possibly escalated the situation since then.
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Post by cufctheparrot on Jun 25, 2020 22:37:58 GMT
Do people really think Long Bailey's behaviour was racist in re-tweeting Maxine Peakes tweet linked to Peakes article in the Independent where she suggested American coppers might have learned their kneeling technique from the Israeli police. I think the issue is that Peakes suggestion about the Isreali state was unsubstantied and therefore racist but there is a fine line between peoples perception of what is racist and what isn't when it comes to making references to the behaviour of the Israeli state. It has got to the point where any critisism of the Israeli state is seen as racist by many. I am not sure I would class it as racist, but it appears to be another example of insinuating anti-Israeli sentiment, whether its justified or not. But aside from that I think it's a great move from the labour party. It shows Keir to be a leader who stands up for what he says and even better it breaks the link between old Labour and there extremist views which has made them unelectable for the last decade and finally demonstrates a competent opposition, against a current leadership which even without the benefit of hindsight has proven themselves to be ineffective whilst having a leader that seemingly appears to believe even his own exaggerations and half-truths. No doubt, many hard line Labour supporters will disagree with her demotion but as a centrist voter I think its a good move and opens the labour party to a wider support base.
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Mark of Carnage
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Jun 26, 2020 0:16:09 GMT
Do people really think Long Bailey's behaviour was racist in re-tweeting Maxine Peakes tweet linked to Peakes article in the Independent where she suggested American coppers might have learned their kneeling technique from the Israeli police. I think the issue is that Peakes suggestion about the Isreali state was unsubstantied and therefore racist but there is a fine line between peoples perception of what is racist and what isn't when it comes to making references to the behaviour of the Israeli state. It has got to the point where any critisism of the Israeli state is seen as racist by many. I am not sure I would class it as racist, but it appears to be another example of insinuating anti-Israeli sentiment, whether its justified or not. Creating an atmosphere of fear to speak out against the Israeli state is a mistake. Everyone is now walking on egg shells when there is a need for solidarity with Palestinians who are faced with Israel's annexation of parts of the West Bank this summer.
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