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Post by Andrewlang on Nov 24, 2024 18:57:43 GMT
Not sure there's a party capable of change that's also capable of getting into power.
If labour continue making themselves an easy target with silly decisions then it'll likely be Tories back in charge again four years from now and that...isn't change. It's more of the same shite.
It's possible labour and Tories are both considered so inept that it creates a power vacuum for someone to fill. Though I don't see it.
There's too many charmless opportunistic grifters in politics. Too many boot kickers, too much corruption, too many machiavellian scum bags and too much outside influence. It's all f*cked.
Andrew
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cambsno
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Post by cambsno on Nov 25, 2024 9:46:26 GMT
Not sure there's a party capable of change that's also capable of getting into power. If labour continue making themselves an easy target with silly decisions then it'll likely be Tories back in charge again four years from now and that...isn't change. It's more of the same shite. It's possible labour and Tories are both considered so inept that it creates a power vacuum for someone to fill. Though I don't see it. There's too many charmless opportunistic grifters in politics. Too many boot kickers, too much corruption, too many machiavellian scum bags and too much outside influence. It's all f*cked. Andrew After the last 14 years Labour will have to go some to make themselves look more hopeless. I just hope people don't forget the lies the Tories told and how they screwed the country over, especially with regards to Brexit. Also, they still harp on about being the party to reduce immigration despite it soaring over the last few years when they were in power. Only someone who is bran dead (or from Boro) could even contemplate voting for the Tories and I say that as someone was was a member 20 years ago. Labour inherited all sorts of problems, don't agree with some of the decisions but whatever they do would be unpopular. They need to raise money from tax and to have companies like Amazon writing to the chancellor to complain is pathetic. I am very anti trade union but after years if low wage rises in public sector, Labour needed to give bigger rises to offset the last few years, not to mention ending the strikes, now everyone can reset and move on! |
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Brophypants
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Post by Brophypants on Nov 25, 2024 9:59:03 GMT
Not sure there's a party capable of change that's also capable of getting into power. If labour continue making themselves an easy target with silly decisions then it'll likely be Tories back in charge again four years from now and that...isn't change. It's more of the same shite. It's possible labour and Tories are both considered so inept that it creates a power vacuum for someone to fill. Though I don't see it. There's too many charmless opportunistic grifters in politics. Too many boot kickers, too much corruption, too many machiavellian scum bags and too much outside influence. It's all f*cked. Andrew After the last 14 years Labour will have to go some to make themselves look more hopeless. I just hope people don't forget the lies the Tories told and how they screwed the country over, especially with regards to Brexit. Also, they still harp on about being the party to reduce immigration despite it soaring over the last few years when they were in power. Only someone who is bran dead (or from Boro) could even contemplate voting for the Tories and I say that as someone was was a member 20 years ago. Labour inherited all sorts of problems, don't agree with some of the decisions but whatever they do would be unpopular. They need to raise money from tax and to have companies like Amazon writing to the chancellor to complain is pathetic. I am very anti trade union but after years if low wage rises in public sector, Labour needed to give bigger rises to offset the last few years, not to mention ending the strikes, now everyone can reset and move on! Sadly I think a great many have already forgotten the damage and the lies of the Tories. Much easier to consume the lie that it's all Labour's fault. Or worse, actually believe in this weird leftist cabal in the shadows of government that somehow both right wing Labour and right wing Conservatives are a part of. I saw on a BBC article recently that 'blaming the last lot has a limited lifespan' (paraphrased, not quoted), but it was on an article about something the Tories were actually responsible for, and they had no such qualms about their using that line for 14 years. |
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Post by Funky Monk on Nov 25, 2024 13:51:31 GMT
a positive note he seems to be doing well with “tough new penalties for offenders”, if that means jailing people for tweets but let others off for attacking police at an airport. Aye, his life's work has been making sure police who abuse, maim or murder civilians don't face consequences. Not sure anyone should be surprised by that continuing! |
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Post by Jerry1971 on Nov 25, 2024 14:12:03 GMT
Not sure there's a party capable of change that's also capable of getting into power. If labour continue making themselves an easy target with silly decisions then it'll likely be Tories back in charge again four years from now and that...isn't change. It's more of the same shite. It's possible labour and Tories are both considered so inept that it creates a power vacuum for someone to fill. Though I don't see it. There's too many charmless opportunistic grifters in politics. Too many boot kickers, too much corruption, too many machiavellian scum bags and too much outside influence. It's all f*cked. Andrew After the last 14 years Labour will have to go some to make themselves look more hopeless. I just hope people don't forget the lies the Tories told and how they screwed the country over, especially with regards to Brexit. Also, they still harp on about being the party to reduce immigration despite it soaring over the last few years when they were in power. Only someone who is bran dead (or from Boro) could even contemplate voting for the Tories and I say that as someone was was a member 20 years ago. Labour inherited all sorts of problems, don't agree with some of the decisions but whatever they do would be unpopular. They need to raise money from tax and to have companies like Amazon writing to the chancellor to complain is pathetic. I am very anti trade union but after years if low wage rises in public sector, Labour needed to give bigger rises to offset the last few years, not to mention ending the strikes, now everyone can reset and move on! Some may be shocked to hear me say (as a life long Tory, and still current member of the Party too) that I really wish Starmer well and I absolutely hope he and his Government can make a success of things. Ultimately this is in the best interests of every single one of us. I still hope that, even almost five months on, but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of recent events. We all knew taxes would rise, but as an employer, putting up the rate of Employers NI and then claiming to offset that with an employment allowance increase was suprious at best, actually a cheap shot. Taxing private education is sixth form politics, idealogically driven and frankly pathetic. It will result in a net loss for HMRC (and Councils as they re-home pupils in state schools) over the first few years. No tangible improvements in the migration crisis. Worst popularity of any PM almost in living memory. Awful handling of the summer riots. 'Two-tier Keir' is a fair criticism as Doris from Derby sits in prison for a facebook post whilst the Manchester Airport thugs are seemingly still un-charged despite the video evidence. All of these points really are just populist opinions shared by many online and in person, they really make little difference to the underpinning fabric of our society. However, the total lie about the so-called £22bn 'black hole' is hugely frustrating. So much of this headline number is made up of spending decisions Reeves felt she had to take post election, spending which may never have happened under any other government. You can't just arbitrarily decide to give billions to your Union mates and then add that to the bill you claim the last (also completely inept) Government left you. Fanciful thinking, but as usual main stream media lap it up. Whilst inflation busting payrises (really pay restoration) for the public sector were needed, they needed to be balanced with serious productivity increases from many elements of the public sector. A lot of organisations seem to be drastically un-productive and overstaffed, precisely in the wrong roles (not service delivery), and this mad bureacracy harms any attempt at delivering decent public services at sensible cost. Does every NHS Trust need its own DEI team? Art Director? 'Lived Experience' Director? Seems massively over the top to me. Sure, have these roles centrally to deliver benefit across the service but not in every Trust? It brings me back to the infamous Brexit Bus and the £350m for the NHS claims. Whether or not that ever did, or would, have happened is a moot point. The NHS costs us £180bn per year, effectively £500m per day. £350m would have funded it for approximately 17 hours a week. |
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cambsno
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Post by cambsno on Nov 25, 2024 15:04:06 GMT
After the last 14 years Labour will have to go some to make themselves look more hopeless. I just hope people don't forget the lies the Tories told and how they screwed the country over, especially with regards to Brexit. Also, they still harp on about being the party to reduce immigration despite it soaring over the last few years when they were in power. Only someone who is bran dead (or from Boro) could even contemplate voting for the Tories and I say that as someone was was a member 20 years ago. Labour inherited all sorts of problems, don't agree with some of the decisions but whatever they do would be unpopular. They need to raise money from tax and to have companies like Amazon writing to the chancellor to complain is pathetic. I am very anti trade union but after years if low wage rises in public sector, Labour needed to give bigger rises to offset the last few years, not to mention ending the strikes, now everyone can reset and move on! Some may be shocked to hear me say (as a life long Tory, and still current member of the Party too) that I really wish Starmer well and I absolutely hope he and his Government can make a success of things. Ultimately this is in the best interests of every single one of us. I still hope that, even almost five months on, but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of recent events. We all knew taxes would rise, but as an employer, putting up the rate of Employers NI and then claiming to offset that with an employment allowance increase was suprious at best, actually a cheap shot. Taxing private education is sixth form politics, idealogically driven and frankly pathetic. It will result in a net loss for HMRC (and Councils as they re-home pupils in state schools) over the first few years. No tangible improvements in the migration crisis. Worst popularity of any PM almost in living memory. Awful handling of the summer riots. 'Two-tier Keir' is a fair criticism as Doris from Derby sits in prison for a facebook post whilst the Manchester Airport thugs are seemingly still un-charged despite the video evidence. All of these points really are just populist opinions shared by many online and in person, they really make little difference to the underpinning fabric of our society. However, the total lie about the so-called £22bn 'black hole' is hugely frustrating. So much of this headline number is made up of spending decisions Reeves felt she had to take post election, spending which may never have happened under any other government. You can't just arbitrarily decide to give billions to your Union mates and then add that to the bill you claim the last (also completely inept) Government left you. Fanciful thinking, but as usual main stream media lap it up. Whilst inflation busting payrises (really pay restoration) for the public sector were needed, they needed to be balanced with serious productivity increases from many elements of the public sector. A lot of organisations seem to be drastically un-productive and overstaffed, precisely in the wrong roles (not service delivery), and this mad bureacracy harms any attempt at delivering decent public services at sensible cost. Does every NHS Trust need its own DEI team? Art Director? 'Lived Experience' Director? Seems massively over the top to me. Sure, have these roles centrally to deliver benefit across the service but not in every Trust? It brings me back to the infamous Brexit Bus and the £350m for the NHS claims. Whether or not that ever did, or would, have happened is a moot point. The NHS costs us £180bn per year, effectively £500m per day. £350m would have funded it for approximately 17 hours a week. Are you serious? 5 months in and no tangible improvements in migration... what are you expecting, it got worse and worse for 14 years under the tories so why should it be a quick easy fix? Thats like moaning at Barry in 3 years time because we haven't made the Campions league |
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barry
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Post by barry on Nov 25, 2024 16:54:25 GMT
Some may be shocked to hear me say (as a life long Tory, and still current member of the Party too) that I really wish Starmer well and I absolutely hope he and his Government can make a success of things. Ultimately this is in the best interests of every single one of us. I still hope that, even almost five months on, but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of recent events. We all knew taxes would rise, but as an employer, putting up the rate of Employers NI and then claiming to offset that with an employment allowance increase was suprious at best, actually a cheap shot. Taxing private education is sixth form politics, idealogically driven and frankly pathetic. It will result in a net loss for HMRC (and Councils as they re-home pupils in state schools) over the first few years. No tangible improvements in the migration crisis. Worst popularity of any PM almost in living memory. Awful handling of the summer riots. 'Two-tier Keir' is a fair criticism as Doris from Derby sits in prison for a facebook post whilst the Manchester Airport thugs are seemingly still un-charged despite the video evidence. All of these points really are just populist opinions shared by many online and in person, they really make little difference to the underpinning fabric of our society. However, the total lie about the so-called £22bn 'black hole' is hugely frustrating. So much of this headline number is made up of spending decisions Reeves felt she had to take post election, spending which may never have happened under any other government. You can't just arbitrarily decide to give billions to your Union mates and then add that to the bill you claim the last (also completely inept) Government left you. Fanciful thinking, but as usual main stream media lap it up. Whilst inflation busting payrises (really pay restoration) for the public sector were needed, they needed to be balanced with serious productivity increases from many elements of the public sector. A lot of organisations seem to be drastically un-productive and overstaffed, precisely in the wrong roles (not service delivery), and this mad bureacracy harms any attempt at delivering decent public services at sensible cost. Does every NHS Trust need its own DEI team? Art Director? 'Lived Experience' Director? Seems massively over the top to me. Sure, have these roles centrally to deliver benefit across the service but not in every Trust? It brings me back to the infamous Brexit Bus and the £350m for the NHS claims. Whether or not that ever did, or would, have happened is a moot point. The NHS costs us £180bn per year, effectively £500m per day. £350m would have funded it for approximately 17 hours a week. Are you serious? 5 months in and no tangible improvements in migration... what are you expecting, it got worse and worse for 14 years under the tories so why should it be a quick easy fix? Thats like moaning at Barry in 3 years time because we haven't made the Campions league Yep, all my fault! Re:migration, Starmer removed the only real deterrent and now the gangs, who he vowed to smash, are making hay. Any idea when he will start to do something about immigration as it really does seem unclear right now. |
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Brophypants
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Post by Brophypants on Nov 25, 2024 18:11:33 GMT
Are you serious? 5 months in and no tangible improvements in migration... what are you expecting, it got worse and worse for 14 years under the tories so why should it be a quick easy fix? Thats like moaning at Barry in 3 years time because we haven't made the Campions league Yep, all my fault! Re:migration, Starmer removed the only real deterrent and now the gangs, who he vowed to smash, are making hay. Any idea when he will start to do something about immigration as it really does seem unclear right now. Rwanda was not a deterrent. (It doesn't matter how many times you say it; it's just not true.) The gangs were always making hay. The Tories closed legal avenues of asylum which empowered the gangs in the first place. There is plenty to criticise this government for but your obsession with the illegal failed vanity project in Rwanda is straight up nonsensical. |
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barry
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Post by barry on Nov 25, 2024 20:52:00 GMT
Yep, all my fault! Re:migration, Starmer removed the only real deterrent and now the gangs, who he vowed to smash, are making hay. Any idea when he will start to do something about immigration as it really does seem unclear right now. Rwanda was not a deterrent. (It doesn't matter how many times you say it; it's just not true.) The gangs were always making hay. The Tories closed legal avenues of asylum which empowered the gangs in the first place. There is plenty to criticise this government for but your obsession with the illegal failed vanity project in Rwanda is straight up nonsensical. Rubbish. I wonder what drove a large number of immigrants to cross from Northern Ireland to Ireland to avoid being sent to Rwanda. Can you tell me what the government are actually doing on this rather than harp back to what the Tories tried. |
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Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Nov 25, 2024 21:34:02 GMT
After the last 14 years Labour will have to go some to make themselves look more hopeless. I just hope people don't forget the lies the Tories told and how they screwed the country over, especially with regards to Brexit. Also, they still harp on about being the party to reduce immigration despite it soaring over the last few years when they were in power. Only someone who is bran dead (or from Boro) could even contemplate voting for the Tories and I say that as someone was was a member 20 years ago. Labour inherited all sorts of problems, don't agree with some of the decisions but whatever they do would be unpopular. They need to raise money from tax and to have companies like Amazon writing to the chancellor to complain is pathetic. I am very anti trade union but after years if low wage rises in public sector, Labour needed to give bigger rises to offset the last few years, not to mention ending the strikes, now everyone can reset and move on! Some may be shocked to hear me say (as a life long Tory, and still current member of the Party too) that I really wish Starmer well and I absolutely hope he and his Government can make a success of things. Ultimately this is in the best interests of every single one of us. I still hope that, even almost five months on, but my patience is wearing thin with a lot of recent events. We all knew taxes would rise, but as an employer, putting up the rate of Employers NI and then claiming to offset that with an employment allowance increase was suprious at best, actually a cheap shot. Taxing private education is sixth form politics, idealogically driven and frankly pathetic. It will result in a net loss for HMRC (and Councils as they re-home pupils in state schools) over the first few years. No tangible improvements in the migration crisis. Worst popularity of any PM almost in living memory. Awful handling of the summer riots. 'Two-tier Keir' is a fair criticism as Doris from Derby sits in prison for a facebook post whilst the Manchester Airport thugs are seemingly still un-charged despite the video evidence. All of these points really are just populist opinions shared by many online and in person, they really make little difference to the underpinning fabric of our society. However, the total lie about the so-called £22bn 'black hole' is hugely frustrating. So much of this headline number is made up of spending decisions Reeves felt she had to take post election, spending which may never have happened under any other government. You can't just arbitrarily decide to give billions to your Union mates and then add that to the bill you claim the last (also completely inept) Government left you. Fanciful thinking, but as usual main stream media lap it up. Whilst inflation busting payrises (really pay restoration) for the public sector were needed, they needed to be balanced with serious productivity increases from many elements of the public sector. A lot of organisations seem to be drastically un-productive and overstaffed, precisely in the wrong roles (not service delivery), and this mad bureacracy harms any attempt at delivering decent public services at sensible cost. Does every NHS Trust need its own DEI team? Art Director? 'Lived Experience' Director? Seems massively over the top to me. Sure, have these roles centrally to deliver benefit across the service but not in every Trust? It brings me back to the infamous Brexit Bus and the £350m for the NHS claims. Whether or not that ever did, or would, have happened is a moot point. The NHS costs us £180bn per year, effectively £500m per day. £350m would have funded it for approximately 17 hours a week. You're of course entitled to your opinion but the idea that you think the mainstream media is in favour of this government seems ludicrous to me! A lot of these 'talking points' are the ones pushed by the mainstream media and even more dangerously the Musk/Russian/Yaxley/Trump/Farage nonsense algorithm. |
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barry
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Post by barry on Nov 25, 2024 22:21:49 GMT
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Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Nov 26, 2024 7:17:49 GMT
We just had an election remember, you've not stopped crying since so thought you'd know that. |
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barry
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Post by barry on Nov 26, 2024 8:31:08 GMT
Are you going to tell me what Labour are doing about immigration instead of using the standard Labour sound bite of blaming the previous government. That’s now in the past. Apart from scrapping Rwanda what are they doing to reduce the number of boats?
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Brophypants
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Post by Brophypants on Nov 26, 2024 9:20:08 GMT
Are you going to tell me what Labour are doing about immigration instead of using the standard Labour sound bite of blaming the previous government. That’s now in the past. Apart from scrapping Rwanda what are they doing to reduce the number of boats? You let the conservatives use the previous government as an excuse for 14 years. What's changed? |
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Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Nov 26, 2024 9:43:43 GMT
Are you going to tell me what Labour are doing about immigration instead of using the standard Labour sound bite of blaming the previous government. That’s now in the past. Apart from scrapping Rwanda what are they doing to reduce the number of boats? I don't vote based on immigration policy so you're asking the wrong person. Not a significant issue for me ~50k people out of 1.2 million immigrants. |
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