Jerry1971
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 26, 2011 9:03:50 GMT
Following on from the very healthy debate on the last EDL thread, it is probably time for a new go at this given various events over the past few days.
The Norwegian mass murderer 'claims' 600 EDL friends on Facebook. His 'manifesto' shows strong support for EDL. Whilst he is clearly a loony, it goes to show how loonies emerge from extremist groups on any side of the argument.
EDL leader convicted for football violence leading a street brawl against Newport County fans last September in Luton. (Quelle surprise)
So, anybody care to defend this 'peaceful' organisation undertaking its 'lawful' protests?
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Rico
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Post by Rico on Jul 26, 2011 9:50:51 GMT
EDL leader also reckons we're only 5 or 10 years away from an english person doing what that Norwegian did. Probably sensible if EDL members are started to be scrutinised a bit more by the security services.
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Jerry1971
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 26, 2011 10:02:13 GMT
I heard some of his interview this morning on Radio 5 as well. Scary person, and a complete imbecile.
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cambcam
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Post by cambcam on Jul 26, 2011 10:18:03 GMT
I don`t think that`s necessary, the original was as you say, a very healthy debate.
Surely this is merely an opportunity to ridicule certain people in an `I told you so`kind of way.
I fully agree with the first bit -
`Whilst he is clearly a loony, it goes to show how loonies emerge from extremist groups on any side of the argument.`
The appalling events show just how dangerous a twisted and poisonous mind can be.
I really don`t know if we are in some way responsible. It troubles me that we seem to be alienating so many people in so many ways. And globally too.
The last thread showed relatively little tolerance on all sides. We can use this Thread 2 to drive home our anti- EDL messages if we want, but we have to look deeper.
Are we in any way responsible? Do we need to listen, do they have a point?
One-sided views appear to be at the core.
God bless the people of Norway.
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Post by lennypack on Jul 26, 2011 12:03:12 GMT
I'm not sure how much useful "socio-political analysis" can really arise out of a discussion about this Norwegian bloke, the more you hear about him the more you think he may well just be properly insane.
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Jerry1971
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 26, 2011 13:06:00 GMT
I think the 'Action Man' photographs of him suggest that his insanity is total.
Forgetting socio-political analysis for a moment, the issue is more about the fact that extremist groups do seem to breed serious loonies. That is not to say that anti-facist league or EDL should be banned, and similarly we shouldn't be banning mosques on the basis that the odd nutter imam spreads hatred and jihadi policies to impressionable young people. BUT - the security services clearly need to keep much more of an eye on them.
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imp50
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Post by imp50 on Jul 26, 2011 17:31:58 GMT
The liberal media appear to have forgotten that Breivik appeared to be a mason. Shouldn't the government be investigating masonic lodges and their connections with this terror suspect?
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Alan
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Post by Alan on Jul 26, 2011 20:05:42 GMT
The liberal media appear to have forgotten that Breivik appeared to be a mason. Shouldn't the government be investigating masonic lodges and their connections with this terror suspect? His manifesto also includes extensive quotes from Daily Mail journalist Melanie Phillips. I reckon MI5 surveillance of Mail readers is now essential.
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cambcam
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Post by cambcam on Jul 27, 2011 8:01:22 GMT
I reckon the shooting of Mail readers is essential There are quotes from Jeremy Clarkson too. Blimey, the limp-wristed brigade can finally nail him.
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Jerry1971
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 27, 2011 8:30:46 GMT
'Jeremy Clarkson in Controversy Shocker'!
Talking of controversial, has anybody picked up that the maximum sentence Breivik can get is 21 years? He'll be out at age 53.
Norwegian government now trying to change the law to charge him with terrorism, which carries a maximum of..... 30 years. (Approx 3 months per murder committed)
Note also, that unlike in the UK, there have not yet been any widespread calls for the death penalty to come back. Perhaps we could learn something from the peaceful approach to life?
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Rico
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Post by Rico on Jul 27, 2011 8:48:38 GMT
Actually I've heard he can be held indefinitely. After his 21 year sentence he can be held for another 5 years if he's still considered a danger to society. IF after those 5 years he's still a danger then another 5 years can be added on and so on.
He expects to die in prison.
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Post by El Goodo on Jul 27, 2011 9:22:19 GMT
That's right, Ricola.
Also, depending on whether or not he's assessed as being insane (which he will be) he can be held indefinitely on those grounds.
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Jerry1971
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Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 27, 2011 10:30:50 GMT
We had the insanity debate in the office yesterday afternoon. Whilst Brievik's motive was clearly insane, his planning and excecution of the attacks most certainly was not. Six plus years of meticulous planning is not insane behaviour.
Norways's last mass murderer was a nurse who killed 22 people, and she served a total of 23 years before being released. A couple of young boys who carried out a Jamie Bulger type murder were counselled and returned to school in two weeks from committing their offences. Both have been accepted back into society.
The Norwegian system is massively different to ours, where punishment is all about rehabilitation of the individual. Only 3,500 prisoners out of a 5 million plus population, many of whom on remand and awaiting a trial.
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Post by El Goodo on Jul 27, 2011 11:00:20 GMT
Six years meticulous planning is not, six years meticulous planning of mass murder is.
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Post by warren62 on Jul 27, 2011 11:01:26 GMT
Would be interesting to put that statistic of population in prison as a % of nation adult population across whole of europe and usa , rsa, aus , china , saudi etc and see a comparative and put in some form of context.
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