|
Post by Andrewlang on Jul 28, 2011 17:23:19 GMT
Nothing to do with anything said on here because there is definitely no racism going on - it just seemed like the best place to post it. I noticed a Norwich fan was banned for life by the club after a comment he made on twitter about a new signing - it was something like: "I hate James Vaughan because he's a f*cking n-word" Andrew
|
|
Rico
First team regular
Posts: 7,573
|
Post by Rico on Jul 28, 2011 17:50:44 GMT
He also got 120 hours community service and a criminal record for life.
It's interesting that you mention him actually as obviously it has nothing to do with this thread, but I read his 'side of the story' where he said he deplored racism and claimed that most of his friends were 'non white'.
|
|
imp50
Unattached
Posts: 5
|
Post by imp50 on Jul 28, 2011 22:08:42 GMT
THOUGH UNFORTUNATELY THIS S-H-I-T-E COUNTRY IS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS ANY BETTER AND ONCE ITS BETTER IT WILL BE BECAUSE OF US EDL ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE AND PROUD!!!!!!!! NS Even when shouted its still fascist tripe... Sounds like some stuck record from the 1930s, all that burn everything and let the phoenix rise strong from the ashes. This is the reality of how given power fascists deal with people that are the target of their hate- Belsen 1945 photo taken by nazis before camp liberated. EDL are fascist and when fascists take power lots of people die. Its simple never again! In the interests of balance I don't think we should forget the tens of millions murdered by Socialists in the Twentieth Century
|
|
cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
|
Post by cambcam on Jul 28, 2011 23:02:22 GMT
Cambcam, I would not be happy with that scenario at all. But what do you propose to do to change that? Note: The colour issue is irrelevant to me. The problem I would have is the language issue. Jerry, I`ve looked long and hard for proposals and solutions from others within this thread. As a man of average intelligence with a limited knowledge of politics, I can only see answers right of centre, and probably further to the right than I`m comfortable with if I`m honest. Over several posts I`ve shown reason and empathy, something painfully lacking in both EDL threads, which is why I highlighted cambridgebob`s excellent post earlier. I`d like to hear answers from those that have posted anti-EDL, but maybe they don`t think there is actually anything wrong with the classroom scenario described and therefore no questions to be answered. We can`t just lecture, or talk at people. Ricola for example has been understandably harsh on cufc4life, but also said, ``Just because I don't agree with all of the views of some wannabe football hooligans doesn't mean I don't share some concerns of the EDL.`` The acknowledgement that there are concerns means a lot to some people. Ask that same question Jerry to those that have shown no empathy at all. There are lots of them.
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jul 29, 2011 6:26:38 GMT
One of the most important reason all kids go to school is to assist them learning English. What exactly is 'wrong' with English not being a kid's first language. There's been some shocking stories in media recently of children entering school not knowing their own names. These are kids with English as their first language.
I see the language issue in schools as a teaching hurdle for teachers to deal with but don't see it as a problem for all the kids or their parents. Kids in my experience as a general rule adapt positively to all sorts of situations in ways that adults struggle with at times. We can learn from them.
I think the crucial question here has to be one of proportionality. Any concerns you might have about the negative impact of your child communicating with a child whose English is poor or for whom English is not their first language is marginal at worst IMO and there is much more to gain in their education from participating in diversity and of course simply making friends should not be underestimated- very likely to mean the chances of growing up with a positive attitude to cosmopolitanism are higher.
I wonder what solution people who are moaning about this sort of thing have in mind because any solution that involves excluding proportionately more kids from one ethnic background more than another is likely to be seen as implied racism and be covered under Race Relations Act so would be unlawful.
|
|
|
Post by cufc4life on Jul 29, 2011 8:45:44 GMT
well said cambcam totally agree with you!!
|
|
|
Post by Jerry1971 on Jul 29, 2011 9:21:28 GMT
Cambcam, I would not be happy with that scenario at all. But what do you propose to do to change that? Note: The colour issue is irrelevant to me. The problem I would have is the language issue. Jerry, I`ve looked long and hard for proposals and solutions from others within this thread. As a man of average intelligence with a limited knowledge of politics, I can only see answers right of centre, and probably further to the right than I`m comfortable with if I`m honest. Over several posts I`ve shown reason and empathy, something painfully lacking in both EDL threads, which is why I highlighted cambridgebob`s excellent post earlier. I`d like to hear answers from those that have posted anti-EDL, but maybe they don`t think there is actually anything wrong with the classroom scenario described and therefore no questions to be answered. We can`t just lecture, or talk at people. Ricola for example has been understandably harsh on cufc4life, but also said, ``Just because I don't agree with all of the views of some wannabe football hooligans doesn't mean I don't share some concerns of the EDL.`` The acknowledgement that there are concerns means a lot to some people. Ask that same question Jerry to those that have shown no empathy at all. There are lots of them. I wasn't criticising you - far from it. As a proud parent of a 2 1/4 year old son, the issue of his future schooling is highly relevant to me, and it does worry me that he may potentially end up in an environment where English is not necessarily the first language. My answer to that is that groups of children who cannot speak acceptable English by the outset of their school careers should be coached together by schools to get their language skills to an acceptable level before entering the normal year group structures. Teaching in the UK must always be in English, and at the prescribed levels of comprehension for children of a particular age group. It is perfectly OK to speak other languages at home - many families do this, including in the past, my own family. I am Austrian by descent, and my mother and my Grandparents moved to the UK just prior to WWII, speaking no English at all. My Mum spoke Czech and German (as she was born in the Czech republic to Austrian parents who had relocated there for work purposes), and her learning Czech was for the EXACT reason children in the UK must learn and speak acceptable English - so that she could get on successfully in school. 70 years on (in her case) whilst rusty, her Czech is still fluent, as is her German. So, she is tri-lingual, which has been a massive benefit to he throughout her life. The first thing she did when moving here was to learn English. I really cannot see the problem with that to be honest.
|
|
Bendigeidfran
First team star
Posts: 9,258
Favourite CUFC player: Steve Claridge
Favourite CUFC match: CUFC v Gateshead 18/05/14
|
Post by Bendigeidfran on Jul 29, 2011 12:41:35 GMT
Whilst not strictly involving me, not being English and all, I'd like to add my perspective. I like to think that I'm extremely liberal, be it race, colour, gender, sexuality, and therefore have no problem with anyone coming into the country. I think its great that we're seen as such a cosmopolitan country. It's a shame that a few have to exploit the system, but as mentioned, you get that in any walk of life. What I have a problem with, however, is governments ridiculous fear of offending people, so come up with knee jerk solutions, and in doing so, managing to offend the majority.
In my local girls school recently, there was an issue over a Sikh girl wearing religious bangles in class. She was suspended for refusing to take them off, because the school has a zero tolerance rule on ANY jewellery being worn. She took them to court and won her case of religious discrimination. Despite Christian girls still not being allowed to wear crucifix necklaces. How is this equality? It's stupid examples of over the top, panicked political correctness like this that cause some people to tar all 'foreign' people with the same brush.
The idea that anyone is seen as a foreigner in a country full of Vikings, Romans and whoever else has settled here over the centuries is laughable in itself.
|
|
Fred Colon
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,357
Favourite CUFC player: Shaggy Taylor
Favourite CUFC match: Maidstone 0-2 Cam Utd AET, Division 4 play-off semi, 2nd leg
|
Post by Fred Colon on Jul 29, 2011 16:49:44 GMT
If I may throw in my tuppeny worth, I contacted both the EDL and the anti-fascist league after picking up a leaflet at the Newport home game last season. The EDL aren't such a bad group- mostly people clinging on to our old imperial identity. Of course, they have the occasional incoherant nutter passionately espousing their narrow-minded views, but in a democratic society (which may not be the good idea eveyone seems to think it is) they should have their voice. As for the anti-fascist lot, whose ideals I would tend towards, I questioned them about the violence that seems to spring up on most occasions that they march opposite the EDL. I was told that this was justified as violence is the only thing the EDL respect. This disappointed me massively, as violence breeds violence, solves nothing and what the hell do they want respect from the EDL for? I was really disappointed. Fighting for what you believe in doesn't mean literally fighting! The way to defeat hate is through love and understanding, not more hate.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Jul 29, 2011 19:20:11 GMT
Very interesting. As I see it, the hierarchy of the EDL have a strong argument whereas the average member makes people lose faith in the organisation. On the other hand, the UAF hierarchy are showing a bad violent impression whereas the average member creates a good peaceful one.
|
|
|
Post by warren62 on Jul 29, 2011 22:00:46 GMT
Mark ofcarnage" One of the most important reason all kids go to school is to assist them learning English. What exactly is 'wrong' with English not being a kid's first language. There's been some shocking stories in media recently of children entering school not knowing their own names. These are kids with English as their first language. I see the language issue in schools as a teaching hurdle for teachers to deal with but don't see it as a problem for all the kids or their parents. Kids in my experience as a general rule adapt positively to all sorts of situations in ways that adults struggle with at times. We can learn from them. I think the crucial question here has to be one of proportionality. Any concerns you might have about the negative impact of your child communicating with a child whose English is poor or for whom English is not their first language is marginal at worst IMO and there is much more to gain in their education from participating in diversity and of course simply making friends should not be underestimated- very likely to mean the chances of growing up with a positive attitude to cosmopolitanism are higher. I wonder what solution people who are moaning about this sort of thing have in mind because any solution that involves excluding proportionately more kids from one ethnic background more than another is likely to be seen as implied racism and be covered under Race Relations Act so would be unlawful. Read more: cambridgeunitedfc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1511&page=2#ixzz1TX7euI3w" Mark I totally disagree, the name issue you raise is a is a smokescreen and is more down to poor parenting. This is England our language is English, and it should be the language that is prevalent in school classrooms (unless a language skills class) no exceptions and irrespecive of human rights issues. It is a basic, required to intergrate and contribute to our society - we must put the majority first not small sectors of communities - if people wish to make their lives here that is the way INTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY NOT SET UP OWN COMMUNITIES AND REMAIN SEEN AS OUTSIDERS and the lack of a common language English in England, would imho create tensions and differences. Now the traditional english scoolchild had a poor grasp of other languages in relation to our european neighbours which is embarrassing , i think a prerequisite of living in any country is being able to communicate and understand and be understood in the mother tongue of that nation. Celebrate and learn about other cultures and diversity by all means but keep at the core respecting and understanding our traditional national culture -
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jul 30, 2011 12:07:56 GMT
Warren, don't get your point, surely you have given good reasons for kids whose first language isn't English to attend school to allow them to integrate better and improve their English. For me this is a matter of proportionality. Unless your solution is to segregate or exclude some children from education which seems to me a tad extreme I can't see a solution. TBH I can't see a problem to be resolved. Any solution you come up with would have a cost implication that would exceed the problem you think needs resolving. You gotta get real about these things. Some of the views expressed like 'no exceptions and irrespective of human rights' do strike me as being over the top and being ridiculous since short of having a totalitarian state where the rule of law is controlled by the executive it will never happen. And if it did happen surely it would destroy those English values you hold so highly. I don't think the English language or culture is going to be eroded by any of the concerns you have but might be by the sort of solutions you are implying. The thing I find most unsettling about extreme right wing politics is the way they always approach problem solving in a way that effectively throws the baby out with the bathwater.
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jul 31, 2011 9:20:39 GMT
The right wing conservative movement which has been gestating for the past decade mostly on the internet appears to be evolving into something more since it has taken to the streets in the form of the EDL and entered the Dutch parliament in the form of Geert Wilders. The massacre perpetrated by Breivik has been met worldwide with shock and puzzlement not least because it was a politically motivated terrorist attack by an anti-Muslim rightwinger.
So is this phenomenon fascism or something new? If it isn’t fascism then it must be a new movement that appears to be filling an ideological gap on the far-right which has been left open by the decline of fascism.
Its replicates enough of fascism's basic assumptions – primarily it's fixation on the ‘nation’ corrupted by the ‘left’, the vilified eththic-religious group, cosmolitanism/immigration and the international banking system.
However there are clearly areas it does not replicate fascism- it rejects biological racism, encouraging blacks and Jews to participate and there is even strong support for the Israeli state but maybe this is simply down to ‘enemy of my enemy’. Also, the focus appears to be to make their ideas dominant ones within right wing dogma rather than to form their own political parties. The EDL doesn’t even have membership, it simply tallies its numbers through facebook. Economic policy appears to be neoliberal rather than the corporatism fascist movements tend to advocate. Furthermore, a crucial difference is that fascism is characterized with palangenetic ultra nationalism i.e. they hark back to a ‘golden age’ (for UK that would be Empire) when everything was rosy. Worldwide the new movement appears to see the ‘golden age’ ending after the Second World War. Perhaps deliberately to draw the line after Hitler and Mussolini the golden age was lost from the mid 1950s with the acceleration of globalization, mass immigration and cosmopolitanism. Most importantly the new movements tend to strongly deny they are fascist and appear genuinely shocked that others would describe them in such a way.
The street movements are pressing the left in a way not seen since the NF in the 1970s. The economic downturn will increasingly lead to the left taking to the streets and the EDL are primed to become the vanguard of the forces of reaction on the streets. They already articulate hostility towards trade unions, anti-cuts and student protesters.
We have for some time been engaged in a war with Al Quaida and two Muslim states and since 7/7 have been encouraged to be vigilant of extremist Muslim’s intent on committing acts of terrorism against us. Some would argue suspician of Muslims has reached a level of hysteria Its hard to deny Islamaphobia is mainstream. It’s populism is evident on this board as well as in the tabloid press e.g. Daily Mail, Daily Express.
The speed at which this new movement is growing in popularity is frightening to many who do not share their views and it is important we understand what is going on before they become a dominant force in British politics.
So what do you think is happening? Is it something new or is it essentially fascism?
|
|
cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
|
Post by cambcam on Jul 31, 2011 9:41:50 GMT
Blimey Mark, I`ve rarely agreed with your posts but have always enjoyed reading them - after that I just kind of feel sorry for the guy sat next to you at a dinner party You mentioned the Dutch, well I`m off on the silver bird in a few hours and will be visiting Anne Frank`s house on Tuesday. I think I read in a book once that she had a bit of bother with extremists. (Jerry, no prob, I understood )
|
|
|
Post by cufc4life on Jul 31, 2011 11:24:36 GMT
our EDL party is getting bigger and bigger by the day and theres noboday or no group in this country, that is going to stop that from happening!! we will march through every town/city in this country, in tens of thousands to be heard and to prove our point! people can turn a blind eye to it but thats not going to stop us from getting our point across! i myself am in 2 minds at the moment because the next demo is in telford on the same day as the first game of the season away to wrexham, so im not yet sure which event i will be attending but mind will be made up within the next few days! then the next demo after that is held in tower hamlets and i cannot wait for this demo because tower hamlets is a place thats mostly muslim, so we will be heard and we will be getting our points across in 1 of the best places possible!! EDL AND CAMBRIDGE UNITED 4 LIFE!!!!!!
|
|