lesj
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by lesj on Dec 5, 2019 12:39:55 GMT
[
"it pains me to see one of the two major political parties in this Country in such an unbelievable mess."
One of the Two they are both in a mess.
If you put both leaders together you still would'nt get one good one
The country is in a mess & who is it that has been in power for the last few years??
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Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Dec 5, 2019 16:48:57 GMT
Mark - if a 'proper Labour government' as you refer to is one led by a Marxist anti-Semite, who simply cannot stop lying about the (not our) NHS, bangs on about his dystopian fantasies relating to the USA, will tax (steal) all that many have worked incredibly hard for and is surrounded by a front bench team with the ability of a squashed banana, then go for it. Labour now represents the politics of envy. The best Labour can hope for next Thursday is an incredible nationwide snow storm which will stop the OAP's from getting out to vote Conservative whilst their own Momentum loony activists get on with fiddling the postal and proxy votes. (No ID for elections, but it is a requirement for Labour meetings???!) Had we had a Labour opposition which had provided proper challenge to the Government, the result next week would be much more in doubt. Even writing as I do as a member of the Conservative Party, it pains me to see one of the two major political parties in this Country in such an unbelievable mess. I have always classed myself as a centre ground Tory. I find myself very much at loggerheads with some of Boris's policies, as it is true we've lurched to the right, but given the alternative has moved so far to the left as to be off the scale it has allowed Boris to do that. Sure if you earn over £80k a year you will pay more in tax under the Labour government but don't worry those people will still be able to afford several holidays a year, drive flash cars and eat in restaurants when they want. They might have to cut down on the number of holidays but that's hardly stealing all that they 'have worked incredibly hard for'. Stating the obvious here but the vast majority of workers earn no where near £80k a year and still work incredibly hard for their money. This myth that somehow the rich are more deserving than those struggling to keep their head above the water is tiresome. Taxing the wealthy so everyone can have decent health care, jobs and food on their tables etc isn't much to ask and is a centrist approach. Just because Labour has aligned itself from the right to the centre left is hardly a reason to have a love in with a Conservative Party that has lurched further to the right. Might be worth a read of the Labour manifesto. There's nothing in there that other northern European states don't do already. I know politically it suits your lot but really the Labour Party has robustly addressed antisemitism and to suggest that Jeremy has any prejudice in his bones shows a thorough ignorance of the way he presents as the most inclusive, trustworthy and all round fluffy leading politician this country has ever seen. When it comes to choosing who we want as Prime Minster it is worth contrasting Jeremy's exemplary character and ego free determination to make the lives of the people of the UK better with Boris' self centered boris first approach, dodgy dealings and wild partys with Russian oligarchs, and his chuntering inability to say anything more than populist sound bites.
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Post by kentishu on Dec 5, 2019 19:47:27 GMT
Mark - if a 'proper Labour government' as you refer to is one led by a Marxist anti-Semite, who simply cannot stop lying about the (not our) NHS, bangs on about his dystopian fantasies relating to the USA, will tax (steal) all that many have worked incredibly hard for and is surrounded by a front bench team with the ability of a squashed banana, then go for it. Labour now represents the politics of envy. The best Labour can hope for next Thursday is an incredible nationwide snow storm which will stop the OAP's from getting out to vote Conservative whilst their own Momentum loony activists get on with fiddling the postal and proxy votes. (No ID for elections, but it is a requirement for Labour meetings???!) Had we had a Labour opposition which had provided proper challenge to the Government, the result next week would be much more in doubt. Even writing as I do as a member of the Conservative Party, it pains me to see one of the two major political parties in this Country in such an unbelievable mess. I have always classed myself as a centre ground Tory. I find myself very much at loggerheads with some of Boris's policies, as it is true we've lurched to the right, but given the alternative has moved so far to the left as to be off the scale it has allowed Boris to do that. I stopped when you said Marxist and anti-Semitic since he is clearly neither of those. However, the Tories do have an actual racist leading them. Kentish
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neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
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Post by neilmc4 on Dec 5, 2019 20:12:06 GMT
Getting back to the original subject........ I totally accept the 'we're all selfish bastards when it comes to who we vote for' argument ; looking after no.1 is a huge part of what makes us human beings. But that's when I really start to lose the plot. Disability can hit anyone , from any walk of life , at any age , regardless of race , fitness , wealth , or any other factors. It's totally unpredictable - just ask Tom Youngs. Given that you know that there is an odds-on probability of you or a member of your close family facing up to a serious disability at some point in your life WHY would you vote for policies which have been proven over the last nine years to not just discriminate against the disabled but to actively kill them? It just makes no logical sense whatsoever. I'll give it one last go and then I might just admit defeat. Imagine you're after a new car. The dealer shows you the best looking motor you've ever seen. It's got the fastest acceleration , the lowest emissions , the best fuel economy and every added extra you could wish for. You and that car are made for each other. Then you discover that that particular model has a bit of a problem - in the course of its life there's a better than 50/50 chance that for no reason at all it'll suddenly drive itself into a tree. And when it does the brakes will fail , the airbags won't work and the seatbelts will snap. Would you still buy it? Because that's your choice in a week's time. If you still want to flip that coin and vote Tory , fair enough. I sincerely hope that you're in the lucky minority who manages to dodge facing disability. And I do honestly mean that - whoever you are , whatever your political leanings , after the last nine years I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Dec 5, 2019 22:08:17 GMT
Now I’m really confused.
I just shelled out almost £1200 on repairs on the wife’s motor today. I’m not sure if that means we chose the wrong car or should’ve voted Labour.
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Post by kentishu on Dec 5, 2019 23:16:46 GMT
Conservative candidate Sally Ann Heart quoted today saying 'Disabled people and those with learning disabilities should be paid less because they don't understand money'.
I can already see Jerry and Cambcam nodding their heads and saying 'sounds about right to me'.
That is what you are up against.
Kentish
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Dec 6, 2019 8:38:58 GMT
Conservative candidate Sally Ann Heart quoted today saying 'Disabled people and those with learning disabilities should be paid less because they don't understand money'. I can already see Jerry and Cambcam nodding their heads and saying 'sounds about right to me'. That is what you are up against. Kentish “I can already see Jerry and Cambcam nodding their heads and saying 'sounds about right to me”. If you want to win a battle you have to know your enemy. Not knowing your enemy is one thing, but misjudging them is quite another. I hope when Labour hold their post-election inquest they are better at realising this than you are.
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Post by Jerry1971 on Dec 6, 2019 11:14:35 GMT
Conservative candidate Sally Ann Heart quoted today saying 'Disabled people and those with learning disabilities should be paid less because they don't understand money'. I can already see Jerry and Cambcam nodding their heads and saying 'sounds about right to me'. That is what you are up against. Kentish That is a quite outrageous thing to say by Sally Ann Heart, and I'm certainly not going to defend it as I wholly disagree with that point of view. One thing which has appeared certain throughout this current campaign is that candidates for all of the various parties are coming out with some utterly crass, upsetting and quite outrageous comments. Fazia Shaheen, the Momentum plant in Chingford, stated on a Sky News interview that 'It's not a fact that killing Jewish Athletes is an Anti-Semitism Issue' which is just about the stupidest comment a member of the Labour Party could have made this week. I think any member of real Labour would have a problem defending that too, but Momentum have certainly had a go. And this is the problem with the burying of heads in sand by many on the left. Corbyn has had chance after chance to properly put the anti-Semitism issue to bed once and for all, and he hasn't.
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lesj
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by lesj on Dec 6, 2019 11:49:28 GMT
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Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
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Post by Mark of Carnage on Dec 6, 2019 13:20:46 GMT
This is a good expose of what the Tories are really up to with our NHS and why we must vote to stop them on 12th December. While the media is obsessed with drug pricing the concession Trump wants most of all as part of that trade deal and will get from Boris is to let Health Care America and United Health massively increase their partnership stake in the NHS buiding on the deals they made over the last decade already brokered with the Tories to sub contract to do operations and health care provision on behalf of the NHS. So according to Boris 'There are no circumstances where this government or any conservative government would put the NHS on the table in any trade negotiation. Our NHS will never be for sale' So how come they have been selling bits and bats of it to HCA and United Health not to mention Maximus over the last decade. I wonder has it anything to do with the donations Health Care America make to the Conservative Party. The Tories cannot be trusted with the NHS. Nor can the Libdems who together with the Conservatives in coalition opened the door to the American companies taking a share of our NHS in the pursuit of profit. It was a Labour government that created the NHS in 1948 against significant Conservative opposition who wanted hospitals to remain private. Then as now only a vote for a Labour government will keep our NHS safe.
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Post by pedrosacapuntas on Dec 6, 2019 15:10:14 GMT
More locally speaking, the South Cambs Tory sounds like an utter cretin that's come in for free publicity today.
I'm sure some of you guys are in that constituency, and some of you may be Tories, but wow what a walloper. Have fun voting for him.
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lesj
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by lesj on Dec 6, 2019 15:59:32 GMT
I will be voting tactically in a bid to keep him out.
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cambcam
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,590
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Post by cambcam on Dec 6, 2019 18:24:49 GMT
To those long-standing Labour voters that refuse to vote for Corbyn because of anti-semitism, I sincerely hope you get your reward and a return of the Labour Party you deserve very soon.
To those still in denial, might be worth taking a read:
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Post by kentishu on Dec 6, 2019 18:36:55 GMT
Conservative candidate Sally Ann Heart quoted today saying 'Disabled people and those with learning disabilities should be paid less because they don't understand money'. I can already see Jerry and Cambcam nodding their heads and saying 'sounds about right to me'. That is what you are up against. Kentish That is a quite outrageous thing to say by Sally Ann Heart, and I'm certainly not going to defend it as I wholly disagree with that point of view. One thing which has appeared certain throughout this current campaign is that candidates for all of the various parties are coming out with some utterly crass, upsetting and quite outrageous comments. Fazia Shaheen, the Momentum plant in Chingford, stated on a Sky News interview that 'It's not a fact that killing Jewish Athletes is an Anti-Semitism Issue' which is just about the stupidest comment a member of the Labour Party could have made this week. I think any member of real Labour would have a problem defending that too, but Momentum have certainly had a go. And this is the problem with the burying of heads in sand by many on the left. Corbyn has had chance after chance to properly put the anti-Semitism issue to bed once and for all, and he hasn't. Except she didn't say that, did she? So putting it in quotations is misleading but typical of the right. You'll have read that in some right wing rag, they do that all the time. No one thinks Corbyn is anti-Semitic. YouGov found 30% say they think he is. That's roughly 3/4 of Tory voters who, like you, see a political benefit in saying he is. The definition of anti-Semitism is so widely drawn that virtually any perceived criticism of Jews, either individually or collectively, or the actions of Israel is caught. One consequence is that support for Palestine will inevitably lead to accusations of anti-Semitism. Corbyn can't do anything about that.
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Post by kentishu on Dec 6, 2019 18:50:10 GMT
To those long-standing Labour voters that refuse to vote for Corbyn because of anti-semitism, I sincerely hope you get your reward and a return of the Labour Party you deserve very soon. To those still in denial, might be worth taking a read: You realise the leadership of the EHRC is Jewish? I can't access that document on this device but I have read loads of supposedly anti-Semitic material and yes some of it criticises Israel or uses terms that some Jews find offensive, but I have yet to read anything which says or even infers that Jews are bad people let alone any evidence of hatred. Contrast that to the vicious nature of many attacks by the right on Muslims.
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