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Post by skippysleftglove on Dec 1, 2011 11:36:27 GMT
The thread has no pre-defined purpose, it was initiated by someone posting the news, there was no tribute in the first post. Within just a few posts, people were asking why, saying they were shocked, speculating that he must have been depressed, wondering why. Evidently it's an emotive subject, but I am not being disrespectful to the memory of a person to offer what I believe to be a credible suggestion as why that person killed themselves. If those same thoughts aren't running through the heads of even his nearest and dearest, I'd be very surprised. Posting a message on a forum which will not be read by Gary Speed's family and friends does not constitute an infringement upon their private grief. I'm sorry you just don't get it. Depression covers a whole range of behaviour and emotion. You provided a specific idea. The question of 'why?' would be on most people's mind. Yet, all those who personally knew Gary Speed can not fathom why. Maybe you should offer your idea to those who personally knew him. I'm sure it will provide great comfort. He has been described as a loving caring family man who loved his wife and children. I doubt your idea of sexuality would have even entered their heads. It's such a shortsighted statement. If the inquest reveals what you speculate to be the truth then well done. However, all you have is just a rumour from someone who does not know. I'm not saying you were wrong to provide us with your great insight; just a little disrespectful.
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Post by Russ Greaves on Dec 1, 2011 12:33:53 GMT
I heard a credible suggestion that Gary Speed was gay. I repeated it. It's not a "great insight" and it wasn't intended to be.
It was also reproduced in a place where I felt it would not intrude on the privacy or grief of his family. What on Earth are you on about when you say I should "offer [my] idea to those who personally knew him"?
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andyf
Youth team regular
Posts: 756
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Post by andyf on Dec 1, 2011 12:46:13 GMT
I would argue that knowing why Gary Speed killed himself is pretty important. In light of the Leveson Inquiry, it could be pretty disastrous for the papers.
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Bendigeidfran
First team star
Posts: 9,236
Favourite CUFC player: Steve Claridge
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Post by Bendigeidfran on Dec 1, 2011 12:52:40 GMT
This thread has become a bit pathetic. Gone from breaking the news and a memorial for Gary Speed, to an attack on Russ that, had he not said it, someone else would have. If you don't feel comfortable with it, click 'back' on your browser and go somewhere else, before you start to feel nauseous on your high horses.
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Post by Russ Greaves on Dec 1, 2011 13:11:25 GMT
It would seem odd to ignore something which is so widespread.
By the way, if I felt this was not already in the public domain, I would not have said anything. I wasn't looking to be one of those posters who tries to claim an 'exclusive' or say things purely so they can say 'I told you so'.
In many discussions about Gary Speed's death, both public and private, the subject of his sexuality will crop up. Most people on this thread will now have seen these suggestions elsewhere. As Rob highlights, had I not said anything I feel quite sure someone else will have.
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Post by skippysleftglove on Dec 2, 2011 10:47:09 GMT
This thread has become a bit pathetic. Gone from breaking the news and a memorial for Gary Speed, to an attack on Russ that, had he not said it, someone else would have. If you don't feel comfortable with it, click 'back' on your browser and go somewhere else, before you start to feel nauseous on your high horses. Congratulations. You're correct. I will never feel comfortable with suicide. Yes, my high horse soothes my discomfort with suicide. Seriously; grow up. Russ; I know where are coming from and writing with the angle that if it were true then it's a tragic waste. I hope you can appreaciate where I am coming from though. My attitudes have changed in the last few months and it is still a very raw subject.
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Post by Russ Greaves on Dec 2, 2011 10:54:52 GMT
I do understand your point of view. Our attitudes will always be shaped by our experiences. I'm sorry for what you appear to be alluding to.
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Post by El Goodo on Dec 2, 2011 13:05:29 GMT
Sooty is claiming the credit for inventing the minutes applause. Amazing.
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Post by willjones on Dec 2, 2011 13:23:23 GMT
I'd describe that as run-of-the-mill, not amazing EG!
;-)
This is so sad about Gary Speed, and the 'rumours' are distastful considering his grieving family but 'none of our business' is something I don't subscribe to personally - as Russ says, our own personal experience will always shape our thoughts and opinions - whenever I hear news of a suicide like this, 'out of the blue' I always think it might be linked to sexuality, especially when in football as despite the prpgress made against bigoted views, discrimination and prejudice based on sexual preference, football remains rooted in a culture where homosexuality is not really an option. Sure, the FA has spend money on Kick it Out, andd extended that to the area of sexual preference, but the reality remains that very few players are openly out as gay, and it's still considered 'fair game' by fans in terms of abuse and teasing of players. It's not a culture or attitudes that breeds acceptance or encourages people to be open and honest about this area of their lives - the pressures which were prevelant in general society leading to many gay men having wives and living a 'straight' live, to stay in the closet for fear of ramifications and 'shame' are more abuntant in football culture than mainstream society, and if the consequence of these attitudes led to Gary taking his life...then it should be of great interest to us all in my view. Football does very little to encourage tolerance or education in this realm, most reading this don't or won't have any issues, but it doesn't mean there isn't a problem or resoponsibility for more to be done, at all levels of the game, to support players who are openly gay, and those who (perhaps, if you believe the 'rumours' like Gary) are living a lie, becomming depressed and petrified their 'dirty' secret will come out. We all know it isn't a dirty secret, and indeed I have had no issues since I came out openly when I was working at the club, but football needs to take more responsibility in my view.
If a breaking press story led him to this then yes, that's awful - but the day when things like this aren't of interest to society and thus printing them isn't considered relevent, not the press not printing them, is what society should be aiming for.
Will
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Post by pct on Dec 2, 2011 13:31:46 GMT
Sooty is claiming the credit for inventing the minutes applause. Amazing. He's a card isn't he
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edhaygarth
Youth team substitute
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Post by edhaygarth on Dec 2, 2011 14:16:32 GMT
Skippy ''It was my understanding that this was a thread to pay tribute to a throughly decent bloke. A chance to pay tribute to what you know he did and not speculate on might be.
I am quite aware you are merely repeating speculation that you have heard. My question would be why you felt the need to repeat it on this thread.''
But Skippy you seem to be the one extending this thread further- taking it away from its perceived starting purpose.
Who doesn't understand? From reading all the posts i think everyone does understand. I think everyone understands very well. Yet you keep bringing up the same argument, not accepting an explanation from Russ or anyone else.
This is very sensitive but peoples opinions will differ and it only natural for people to ask 'why'.
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Post by ChrisVessey on Dec 2, 2011 17:30:25 GMT
Sooty is claiming the credit for inventing the minutes applause. Amazing. Link? I'm in the mood for a laugh.
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Bendigeidfran
First team star
Posts: 9,236
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Post by Bendigeidfran on Dec 3, 2011 12:27:10 GMT
Nice tribute to Gary on Football Focus. Really choked up watching it
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Post by wrexham1872 on Dec 4, 2011 4:41:08 GMT
Gates outside Racecourse, still makes me start to cry when I think about it Attachments:
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Post by skippysleftglove on Dec 5, 2011 12:29:03 GMT
Ed: it's a shame you are quoting me without understanding.
You are completely entitled to question what I write but at least read it first.
Equally, if you had 'bothered' to read on you will probably realise why my attitudes differ from some. You would also realise why telling me that it is only natural for people to ask 'why?' is a really pathetic thing to say.
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