cambsno
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Post by cambsno on Jul 15, 2024 14:11:46 GMT
I think overall most of the unknowns in terms of this level have done themselves no harm. Guehi, Mainoo and Palmer the 3 obvious ones. Eze and Bowen looked decent enough in the minutes they got. Gallagher didn’t really enhance his claims for being a regular though and the lack of minutes for Gordon and Wharton may indicate that Southgate doesn’t feel they’re quite ready just yet. Will be interesting to see what happens with Trippier, Walker and Maguire. A new coach may have his own ideas but I would be looking to move on from Walker and Trippier. Both have been excellent for England but 2 years seems a stretch for them. Think Maguire still has something to offer, albeit not the automatic pick he was before this tournament. Don't think Maguire will - Stones, Konsa, Guehi all look to be better options and Branthwaite is a great talent to they would be my 4 CB in a squad, possibly someone like Gomez as a 5th as versatile.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 15, 2024 18:30:23 GMT
I think overall most of the unknowns in terms of this level have done themselves no harm. Guehi, Mainoo and Palmer the 3 obvious ones. Eze and Bowen looked decent enough in the minutes they got. Gallagher didn’t really enhance his claims for being a regular though and the lack of minutes for Gordon and Wharton may indicate that Southgate doesn’t feel they’re quite ready just yet. Will be interesting to see what happens with Trippier, Walker and Maguire. A new coach may have his own ideas but I would be looking to move on from Walker and Trippier. Both have been excellent for England but 2 years seems a stretch for them. Think Maguire still has something to offer, albeit not the automatic pick he was before this tournament. Don't think Maguire will - Stones, Konsa, Guehi all look to be better options and Branthwaite is a great talent to they would be my 4 CB in a squad, possibly someone like Gomez as a 5th as versatile. I don't see anything in Gomez to suggest he is an international player. He can't even get a starting place for his club, which must be a pre-requisite to play for your country. Which has been another weakness of Southgate, playing out of form and out of favour club players ahead of fresh new blood.
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simon
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Post by simon on Jul 15, 2024 18:39:48 GMT
. I think Southgate will reflect on taking half fit players out there as a mistake, especially when he said he couldn't take Maguire for that reason (who wasn't missed btw!) We would surely have picked up a couple of goals from set pieces had Maguire been fit, though quite possibly would have seen that cancelled out at the other end, Guehi did a great job defensively as did Konsa. Southgate was also vindicated in taking Luke Shaw, who made a significant contribution from the Quarter Finals onwards, he was excellent in the first half yesterday and had possibly the best attacking player in the tournament in his pocket, though he faded in the second half. I wouldn’t say he was vindicated at all. Shaw was fit to start the final only and no other specialist left back taken. To say he had Jamal in his pocket is certainly stretching it, he played very well and would’ve scored but for a fine Pickford save. As for Maguire, if he’d been fit Guehi and Konsa wouldn’t have got a kick so thankfully he wasn’t. Maybe no goals but Guehi’s contribution to Bellingham’s overhead kick shouldn’t be underestimated. Flicked it on under pressure from at least 3 defenders.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 15, 2024 18:47:37 GMT
We would surely have picked up a couple of goals from set pieces had Maguire been fit, though quite possibly would have seen that cancelled out at the other end, Guehi did a great job defensively as did Konsa. Southgate was also vindicated in taking Luke Shaw, who made a significant contribution from the Quarter Finals onwards, he was excellent in the first half yesterday and had possibly the best attacking player in the tournament in his pocket, though he faded in the second half. I wouldn’t say he was vindicated at all. Shaw was fit to start the final only and no other specialist left back taken. To say he had Jamal in his pocket is certainly stretching it, he played very well and would’ve scored but for a fine Pickford save. As for Maguire, if he’d been fit Guehi and Konsa wouldn’t have got a kick so thankfully he wasn’t. Maybe no goals but Guehi’s contribution to Bellingham’s overhead kick shouldn’t be underestimated. Flicked it on under pressure from at least 3 defenders. First-half Shaw was excellent, he did have Yamal in his pocket. Sadly it's a 90 minute game and his lack of match fitness couldn't have helped. But Yamal was also given licence to move off his wing.in the 2nd half, so it wasn't only Shaw to blame.
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onlyluke92
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Post by onlyluke92 on Jul 16, 2024 6:53:53 GMT
The biggest issue with the TEAM was balance - it was quite clear that we cannot play Bellingham and Foden together in the 10 and btw Bellingham is not a no10. He does not create enough, was shoe horned into a striker for Madrid this season and did well but his best games came playing out from midfield.
We desperately needed someone who would run from the left direct at other teams defences, especially as Kane was dropping so deep. He had no one running beyond him which would have given him more space to win the ball and then do something with it.
Relying on moments was just not sustainable and we did not create enough generally across the whole tournament
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Post by cufctheparrot on Jul 16, 2024 8:27:31 GMT
I thought it was interesting that Southgate said it had been a difficult tournament for Kane physically. Implies that he's somewhat been nursing an injury - which wouldn't be a surprise as he missed a few games for Bayern at the end of the season to a back problem of some sort. Which quite possibly affected his performance. Personally, I think that Southgate hasn't gone too far wrong, no-one wins the tournament in the first game, but they can certainly lose it early. His cautious approach through the groups was largely justified, despite being a tough watch. Where he possibly did go wrong was not being brave enough with key decisions at key moments. Kane being the obvious example. I get why he played, he's been a talisman for the team, but if he was struggling that much, it obviously had the impact of affecting the whole team's play. It meant the press didn't work, and the whole team became compromised as a result. Anyway, we should be grateful to him, and the players, whatever comes next. Getting to finals is not something we've made a habit of until he took over, despite the sense of entitlement that us English tend to portray. And as for suggesting that society being 'soft' is the problem, I'd just ask, how many world cups did we win and finals did we get to in those good old days of belting kids with shoes and rulers? There are plenty of reasons why we didn't win yesterday, but I'm not convinced we need to go back to marginalising 80% of kids to get a better result. The other issue with Kane is that he isn't an impact player off the bench in the way that Watkins and Toney would be, so if you are going to involve him, it has to be from the start. I think Southgate will reflect on taking half fit players out there as a mistake, especially when he said he couldn't take Maguire for that reason (who wasn't missed btw!) I disagree, I think McGuire was missed but only in attack, we had very limited threat from corners and it’s that side of his game which we missed.
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imp566
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Post by imp566 on Jul 16, 2024 8:58:35 GMT
The other issue with Kane is that he isn't an impact player off the bench in the way that Watkins and Toney would be, so if you are going to involve him, it has to be from the start. I think Southgate will reflect on taking half fit players out there as a mistake, especially when he said he couldn't take Maguire for that reason (who wasn't missed btw!) I disagree, I think McGuire was missed but only in attack, we had very limited threat from corners and it’s that side of his game which we missed. I think much of the issue was with the delivery of corners and free kicks; they weren't the best.
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Post by saltyvinegar on Jul 16, 2024 10:21:56 GMT
Not a great fan of Southgate but I think the article below sums up the mindset of the team & a lot of this is on the players themselves. John Barnes also did a very articulate interview yesterday explaining the difference between England & Spain as a team unit. Spain picked the best players to fit their system even if they played for the lesser known clubs & when the subs came on they seamlessly (Rodri replacement) fitted in to the system as the team has its own identity of playing style. Their midfielders know within an instant where to pass to the runners who broke through our lines so easily whereas our midfielders are taking too much time to work out where are players are. Our players are running probably the most yards of any team but with no real structure. We pick the best individual players & then try to find a system that gets them all on to the pitch at the same time I hope someone like Wharton develops into a Modric type who doesn't run around like Connor Gallagher but knows how to make quick & incisive passes forward without having to go long all the time www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/15/turning-point-england-kyle-walker-throw-in-euro-2024-final-spain
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simon
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Post by simon on Jul 16, 2024 19:02:13 GMT
Uefa have announced their team of the tournament. One England player in it. Kyle Walker. I’m serious.
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camloyal
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Post by camloyal on Jul 16, 2024 19:14:16 GMT
Uefa have announced their team of the tournament. One England player in it. Kyle Walker. I’m serious. Who else would you suggest? No one springs to mind
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Post by funkymonk on Jul 16, 2024 19:14:59 GMT
Should probably have been Guehi, but Walker was excellent aside from a few minutes in the final. Even if those few minutes were somewhat decisive.
Yet, that's still a low bar.
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simon
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Post by simon on Jul 16, 2024 19:37:21 GMT
Uefa have announced their team of the tournament. One England player in it. Kyle Walker. I’m serious. Who else would you suggest? No one springs to mind Are you suggesting Kyle Walker was the best right back in the tournament? He had a shocker. Just look at the goals we conceded.
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simon
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Post by simon on Jul 16, 2024 19:39:22 GMT
Should probably have been Guehi, but Walker was excellent aside from a few minutes in the final. Even if those few minutes were somewhat decisive. Yet, that's still a low bar. He had a very poor tournament, to follow a poor season (ask a City fan they will agree). To say he was the best right back in the tournament is laughable.
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camloyal
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Post by camloyal on Jul 16, 2024 20:02:23 GMT
Who else would you suggest? No one springs to mind Are you suggesting Kyle Walker was the best right back in the tournament? He had a shocker. Just look at the goals we conceded. No, I was thinking that you thought we should have had more players in the 11.
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Post by El Goodo on Jul 16, 2024 20:06:11 GMT
Yeah I'm generally a big fan of Walker but he was absolutely dreadful throughout.
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