imp566
Cult hero
Posts: 16,058
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Post by imp566 on Nov 20, 2023 12:51:01 GMT
I have a 1823 day streak on Duolingo (Spanish and German). Don't even feel close to being able to speak either with a native (despite German being the first language I learned to speak). How people from some countries can master 3 or 4 languages with ease, whilst most Brits can't even master English, is a real mystery to me.Kentish Education is the answer. From an early age, children in Europe are taught English and at least one other European language (Spanish, German, French, Italian), depending on where they are - proximity to another country being the key. It doesn't help that we are 'lazy' as Brits, and don't really see the need to be bilingual (or better!), because most of the world speaks our language. I have a French Sister in Law, who refused to 'get serious' with my brother, unless he learned her language! His language skills, having left Netherhall, were shockingly poor, but through conversation with her and her family, he soon became fluent. I think that is what you call motivation to succeed!
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Post by El Goodo on Nov 20, 2023 13:33:53 GMT
Indeed. Excluding being actually raised bi/tri/quad/pentalingual, age of starting learning is the largest single factor in language acquisition. The critical window is open widest from birth to ~7 years old – when it is largely effortless – and begins to shut very quickly from then on. The fact that most language teaching in schools doesn't even start until 12 years old is where it all goes wrong really, with the lack of cultural import placed on it obviously a large contributory factor too.
It's far from impossible beyond childhood to learn a language, but it is much more difficult.
Get languages taught in primary schools & things would change quite rapidly. Although I think the fact that there is and will continue to be an increasing number of mixed-language households will begin to really show in the next 15-20 years.
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Sandypants
Reserve team star
Posts: 4,059
Favourite CUFC player: Harrison Dunk
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Post by Sandypants on Nov 20, 2023 13:42:37 GMT
Indeed. Excluding being actually raised bi/tri/quad/pentalingual, age of starting learning is the largest single factor in language acquisition. The critical window is open widest from birth to ~7 years old – when it is largely effortless – and begins to shut very quickly from then on. The fact that most language teaching in schools doesn't even start until 12 years old is where it all goes wrong really, with the lack of cultural import placed on it obviously a large contributory factor too. It's far from impossible beyond childhood to learn a language, but it is much more difficult. Get languages taught in primary schools & things would change quite rapidly. Although I think the fact that there is and will continue to be an increasing number of mixed-language households will begin to really show in the next 15-20 years. I believe primary school kids are all now learning a foreign language or two from year 3. It'll go some way to improving things, but as you say, still misses that sweet spot.
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Post by El Goodo on Nov 20, 2023 13:47:30 GMT
Good. Without a GCSE requirement though there'll still be a massive drop-off at KS4.
Obviously availability of teachers is a huge issue but that's a different problem.
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Post by mike_CUFC on Nov 20, 2023 16:53:12 GMT
Yes my boy started French in Year 3, but my girls both ditched it in Year 9 when their options came up.
One of my biggest regrets is attempting both French and German at GCSE and marginally failing both for getting the languages mixed up during the exams.
EG hits the nail on the head though, you have to learn young otherwise it gets a lot more difficult very quickly. My predecessor at my current company moved to Germany and married a Swiss-German, they had a Portuguese Nanny and by the age of 4/5 he was fluent in 3 languages, incredible gift to have. But us Brits will never appreciate it as our language is so universal and therefore we can get away with being lazy.
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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Nov 20, 2023 21:43:27 GMT
When I was at school it was French (shite) or German (pointless) and that was it.
Being offered something like Spanish at the time would have been brilliant, but alas, had to learn it the hard way as an adult instead.
Along way learned that we're probably not all as bad at languages as we think we are, but we just don't have the necessary motivations to learn them.
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Post by cufcdenmark on Nov 20, 2023 21:51:39 GMT
Along way learned that we're probably not all as bad at languages as we think we are, but we just don't have the necessary motivations to learn them. Think that sums it up. Unless you are living abroad or really interested in languages, why would we bother learning a second or third language. I know English people in Denmark who have not bothered to learn the language as they can get by without doing so, whereas a Dane living outside of Denmark has to learn a second language.
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Post by Andrewlang on Nov 20, 2023 21:55:24 GMT
I went to a favela in Brazil once and was humbled by a kid who muttered to our guide 'we make an effort to speak their language, but they make no effort to speak our language'.
He didn't speak much English mind, gobby little prick.
Andrew
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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Nov 20, 2023 22:49:51 GMT
Along way learned that we're probably not all as bad at languages as we think we are, but we just don't have the necessary motivations to learn them. Think that sums it up. Unless you are living abroad or really interested in languages, why would we bother learning a second or third language. I know English people in Denmark who have not bothered to learn the language as they can get by without doing so, whereas a Dane living outside of Denmark has to learn a second language. Yeah exactly, and it's not exactly a small endeavour to undertake. Some phrases for travelling is simple enough, but actually learning another language needs motivation, discipline and a long time. Danish can't be easy if you've learned that.
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Post by cufcdenmark on Nov 22, 2023 9:44:39 GMT
Think that sums it up. Unless you are living abroad or really interested in languages, why would we bother learning a second or third language. I know English people in Denmark who have not bothered to learn the language as they can get by without doing so, whereas a Dane living outside of Denmark has to learn a second language. Yeah exactly, and it's not exactly a small endeavour to undertake. Some phrases for travelling is simple enough, but actually learning another language needs motivation, discipline and a long time. Danish can't be easy if you've learned that. Not if you are learning from a tape or book, but living in Dk being surrounded by it makes it easier.
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Dec 2, 2023 23:09:10 GMT
I follow a few U's fans on twitter, some of this parish too. Recently one such person has started posting derogatory and racially offensive replies to women. Now I don't think this is the forum to call someone out, and I don't think they'd listen to a stranger anyway, but if you're friends with this person, or stand with them at games, I hope you're brave enough to challenge this behaviour.
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joffjog
On trial
Posts: 266
Member is Online
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Post by joffjog on Dec 3, 2023 22:21:43 GMT
I follow a few U's fans on twitter, some of this parish too. Recently one such person has started posting derogatory and racially offensive replies to women. Now I don't think this is the forum to call someone out, and I don't think they'd listen to a stranger anyway, but if you're friends with this person, or stand with them at games, I hope you're brave enough to challenge this behaviour. There’s one guy I’ve challenged multiple times for his misogynistic comments on Twitter. Having some men do it too would be muchly appreciated. I think I’ve been fairly “lucky” to have not received anything too horrendous, but I have had more than a couple of U’s fans in my DMs to either emphatically inform me I know nothing about football (mostly for Brophy related posts 🙄) or to try and crack on to me. It really is very tedious and annoying. On the flip side, I’ve made a couple of wonderful male friends there and, upon recently sharing some of the personal problems my daughter (who is disabled and currently having a really rough time) and I have been facing, have received some lovely offers of support, both practical and emotional. Big love if you’re one that falls into this latter group x
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Post by hoolaohanrahanrahan on Dec 6, 2023 23:56:10 GMT
Twitter is just bloody horrible but you can't get rid of it because so much is linked through it, and before you know it you're scrolling through the cesspit.
Just...stay safe out there everyone I guess.
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Post by Andrewlang on Dec 7, 2023 9:32:11 GMT
I found twitter mostly fine. I tend to follow the people who aren't going to trigger me and I never read the replies so all was fine...that is until they started just dumping tweets from randomers on my feed. One today was "Declan Rice is a multi-millionaire, 6'1, elite footballer so why does he settle for a fat white girl".
Bleak. Very bleak.
Andrew
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Post by kentishu on Dec 7, 2023 14:26:03 GMT
I deleted my twitter account, with no regrets at all. It's a cesspit, you will never have a good conversation with anyone, and all I managed to do was further entrench the views of some extremely rancid people.
Kentish
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