|
Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 1, 2020 12:54:52 GMT
Is this a revolution? I’m wary of the fact that Twitter - where I’ve seen so many of the videos and comments around the civil unrest - can be the ultimate echo chamber, but these protests are on a huge scale.
There are multiple issues at play here, with racism primary among them. The demonisation of ‘the media’ (lumped together as one homogenous entity) is another. And then there’s Trump, who is as much a symptom of that diseased sociopolitical structure as he is a cause.
It’s a mess.
|
|
Denton
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,898
|
Post by Denton on Jun 1, 2020 15:19:33 GMT
I went in November on a west coast trip and it's completely put me off that terrible country despite some of the great things I got to see.
Weirdly you could feel some racial tension just sitting on a bus, it's a bizarre feeling i've never quite had before. I don't think without something massive happening (this may be it) they won't ever change. They've also got an embarrassing level of homelessness' which they don't seem to care about at all
|
|
neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
|
Post by neilmc4 on Jun 1, 2020 15:56:12 GMT
It's certainly an incredibly worrying time. Racial inequality and tensions are never far from the surface across large swathes of the country but a number of factors have conspired to produce the current explosion of anger and blind rage. The pressures of the COVID pandemic , and the fact that it has hit the African-American demographic the hardest (both economically and in terms of mortality rate) has produced a tinderbox which the powers-that-be , fronted by the most openly racist President in living memory , seem determined to pour petrol - sorry , gasoline - on as much as possible. Like all right-minded observers I deplore mindless violence but as far more intelligent people than me have pointed out where do you go when five decades of peaceful protest have got you nowhere? Remember Colin Kaepernick? In case you weren't aware his 'take a knee' protest was thought up by a decorated former US Army Green Beret (who is white) and who joined him in his first public protest. Result? Kaepernick lost his job and hasn't worked since , and was publicly demonised by President Trump for "disrespecting the American flag." Strangely enough , when white supremacists and neo-Nazis marched through American cities parading Stars And Stripes flags adorned with swastikas (defacing the US flag is a criminal offence by the way) Trump 's response was to call them "good people." These are uncertain and fearful times for people of all nations and all colours ; what America desperately needs at this time of crisis is a leader who can calm and unite a frightened and angry population. What they've got is the exact opposite , a racist narcissist who thinks the only way to cling on to power is to sow the seeds of hatred and division. When you see that members of the National Guard and the US police service are actually joining in with protests across the country you begin to realise just how badly Trump has screwed this up and how utterly ill-prepared he is to navigate a way through it. Very VERY worrying times indeed.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 2, 2020 14:29:39 GMT
The number of people - either through genuine or wilful ignorance - failing to grasp that ‘black lives matter’ is not a contradiction or challenge to the self-evident truth that all lives have value is depressing. Not only is racism widespread, but so too is the fundamental failure to recognise its scope and consequences.
If you are not racist you have no cause to be offended by the statement that black lives matter, and no need to be responding that ‘all lives matter’. The matter at hand is that of black people being routinely criminalised, brutalised and killed at the hands of (usually) white police. That is a grave and urgent concern.
All lives do matter, but not all have been reduced to a value so low as George Floyd’s apparent worth in the eyes of the policeman, and the institution that he represents, that he was pinned to a pavement under that coward’s knee and died there, calling out for his mother.
If you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention.
|
|
Denton
Reserve team substitute
Posts: 2,898
|
Post by Denton on Jun 2, 2020 15:59:15 GMT
When I was in the queue for passport control at Seattle (A fairly Liberal part of the USA) I saw every single non white person taken away for extra questioning. Maybe it was just a coincidence but I doubt it given recent events.
I genuinely don't see a way out of all of this though, I've always felt like America was 2-3 different countries dressed up as one so maybe they'll finally split up after a civil war. Or more likely return to normal once something else hits the news
A very good film about all of this came out just before lockdown called Queen and slim, proper delved into it all was absolutely glued to it.
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jun 2, 2020 18:13:27 GMT
Aside from everything else that is so so shocking I was surprised and shocked by the casual way the reporter who lost an eye said she would have to pay a 1/4 million dollars in uninsured hospital fees. That is a staggering sum of money for health care. I wonder how much they are charging coronavirus victims to get the hospital treatment they need. A f*cked up disgraceful country whose citizens deserve better.
The level of inequality in the USA is breathtaking. Why is the British government silent on this? How can we continue to be allied to a state with such flagrant human rights violations with a draft dodging coward of a leader who hides in a bunker at the first hint of protest and has no shame and just wants to wave a bible about and have people shot. It's disgusting.
|
|
essjay
Youth team substitute
Posts: 418
|
America
Jun 2, 2020 20:53:54 GMT
via mobile
Post by essjay on Jun 2, 2020 20:53:54 GMT
On another website an American (not sure what state) said that they spent 2 weeks in ICU with coronavirus and for those 2 weeks they were presented with a bill for $800,000. (£637436). They did have health insurance however.
|
|
neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
|
Post by neilmc4 on Jun 3, 2020 15:17:16 GMT
I have a strong feeling that future historians will look back at yesterday's events in Washington and identify them as the moment when Donald J Trump , "leader of the free world" , finally and definitively abandoned all pretence of being a President and openly declared his determination to become a dictator. Clearing a peaceful and lawful protest (which , judging by the fottage , was made up of a large percentage of young women) with rubber bullets , tear gas and flash grenades just moments before he started a speech by defending citizens' rights to..........er.............peacefully protest was grotesque and disgusting enough. But that was followed up by the vomit-inducing sight of him posing in front of a church holding a Bible (upside down , somewhat appropriately) , an act which did at least unite religious leaders of all faiths in their outraged condemnation. What has been far more disturbing and telling has been the subsequent reaction of the Republican Party. Thus far I have only seen two GOP representatives brave enough to say what is blindingly obvious to any observer with an ounce of human decency ; from the rest - approval , silence , or worse still feigned ignorance of the event even happening at all. For a country to truly call itself a democracy , the members of the ruling party , whether it is centrist , of the left or of the right , MUST be able to question their leader's judgement , hold them to account and where necessary stand up and say 'no'. Trump has systematically emasculated the Republican Party , by removing anyone who dares to disagree with him , to the point where it is now no longer a functioning party - it's a personality cult. When you have a man in charge who can no longer be questioned or held accountable by his own party because he's surrounded by sycophantic yes-men you no longer have a Presidency , you have a dictatorship. And history tells us how well they turn out. Citizens of America , truly do we weep for you and your country.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Greaves on Jun 3, 2020 15:33:44 GMT
The problem (or one of many) is that politics is divided along such firm partisan lines that people would prefer a genuinely awful Republican President than ANY Democrat in the White House.
|
|
neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
|
Post by neilmc4 on Jun 3, 2020 16:22:09 GMT
So true Russ. And don't get me started on the Democrats' decision to oppose a privileged white geriatric who suffers from permanent foot-in-mouth disease with...........
............a privileged white geriatric who suffers from permanent foot-in-mouth disease.
|
|
Mark of Carnage
Reserve team substitute
Responsibility, Resilience, Respect
Posts: 2,558
|
Post by Mark of Carnage on Jun 3, 2020 16:46:56 GMT
Sooner we distance ourselves from the USA and stop being friendly apologists for them the better. Theyare a pariah state. We should move our focus of alignment closer to home with those we have far more in common with like the rest of Europe who share our respect for human rights. Maybe join some some sort of club or union with them..
|
|
|
Post by champair79 on Jun 3, 2020 17:31:10 GMT
The problem (or one of many) is that politics is divided along such firm partisan lines that people would prefer a genuinely awful Republican President than ANY Democrat in the White House. Do most folks even understand why they dislike the other side? Or is it a situation where “my family has always voted Republican/Democrat so that’s the way it’s going to be?” The US just feels so polarised with political views. If you’re a fairly centrist type of person, you don’t seem to count. Extreme is the order of the day!
|
|
|
America
Jun 3, 2020 17:44:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by richmead on Jun 3, 2020 17:44:17 GMT
To Neil’s post re: Kap. The problem is, he’s not an overly likeable sports star anyway. Which should be irrelevant, but people didn’t want to get behind him really it seems. Also, and it’s irrelevant but is worth correcting, he’d actually lost his “job” essentially a few weeks previous as he was no longer a starting choice QB for the Niners. Some suggested he made a stand when it might have been a good time in his career to consider making that stand.
All irrelevant I know, but kind of explains the antipathy to his protest.
|
|
neilmc4
Youth team substitute
Posts: 583
|
Post by neilmc4 on Jun 3, 2020 18:06:02 GMT
Thanks Rich , good knowledge. The really pertinent point , especially in relation to recent events , is that neither Trump nor his supporters EVER criticised the white US Army veteran who came up with the idea of 'take a knee' in the first place.
|
|
|
America
Jun 3, 2020 19:31:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Jun 3, 2020 19:31:38 GMT
The problem (or one of many) is that politics is divided along such firm partisan lines that people would prefer a genuinely awful Republican President than ANY Democrat in the White House. Do most folks even understand why they dislike the other side? Or is it a situation where “my family has always voted Republican/Democrat so that’s the way it’s going to be?” The US just feels so polarised with political views. If you’re a fairly centrist type of person, you don’t seem to count. Extreme is the order of the day! I wouldn't say there's quite those extremes, the Democrats are very much the centrists (albeit with some left wing growth recently with Sanders' popularity etc). To Americans Liberalism is left wing whereas you could argue our right (the Tories) is fairly liberal socially.
|
|