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Post by texaspete on Jul 16, 2024 15:22:05 GMT
The fact that we did all that despite him. Outdone tactically by Croatia, Italy AND Spain, playing out of form players. An Arteta, Pep or Klopp wins the tournament Complete nonsense, not least the assumption that success in club management necessarily translates to success in international management
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Post by saltyvinegar on Jul 16, 2024 15:26:39 GMT
The fact that we did all that despite him. Outdone tactically by Croatia, Italy AND Spain, playing out of form players. An Arteta, Pep or Klopp wins the tournament Complete nonsense, not least the assumption that success in club management necessarily translates to success in international management None of those managers would touch the England job with a bargepole
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Post by hookycrooky on Jul 16, 2024 15:29:06 GMT
I was nt Gareth biggest lover as his football was negative but he has taken us miles further forward over his 8 years to where we are getting to finals and has lifted our expectation. But like all things good they have a shelf life and now is probably the right time to move on but it needs to be someone who can take us to winning something.
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Brophypants
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What are you doing with my badge? :(
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Post by Brophypants on Jul 16, 2024 16:23:57 GMT
No, but most pro-Southgaters understand that club management and international management are very different. What part of the Gareth Southgate era of England’s football history did you not like? The record goals scored at three separate international tournaments? The record number of clean sheets? The record record number of knockout wins? The first ever Euro final? The first World Cup semi-final for 28 years? The first final on foreign soil? The first penalty shootout win over 20 years? The fact that we did all that despite him. Outdone tactically by Croatia, Italy AND Spain, playing out of form players. An Arteta, Pep or Klopp wins the tournament Arteta has famously won a single FA Cup.
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Post by zx10racer22 on Jul 16, 2024 16:26:50 GMT
I'm not suggesting Southgate was the messiah or faultless. But he is massively underappreciated.
The "negative" tag only stands up to scrutiny in Euro 2024, and even then, it's harsh. 8 goals in 7 games - it's a better goals per game record than we managed in five of the six major tournaments that were played prior to his appointment.
The facts show that Southgate's England scored far more goals in major tournaments than other England teams have. And that's by any metric, including goals per game. The 2022 world cup was not only England's highest ever goals scored at a tournament, but also our highest ever goals per game. So much for "turgid", "boring" and "negative".
So to all the people who have called for his departure, disrespected him, etc, lets see in 10 years time if England have kicked on from the Southgate years and won all these trophies some of you think we're entitled to. Or whether we are back to considering quarter finals to be a good run. Lets see if we get anywhere near the 11 goals per tournament average that Southgate managed.
If not, just remember that this is the change you wanted. The change you asked for.
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danboyb
Youth team substitute
Posts: 681
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Post by danboyb on Jul 16, 2024 16:45:28 GMT
I'm not suggesting Southgate was the messiah or faultless. But he is massively underappreciated. The "negative" tag only stands up to scrutiny in Euro 2024, and even then, it's harsh. 8 goals in 7 games - it's a better goals per game record than we managed in five of the six major tournaments that were played prior to his appointment. The facts show that Southgate's England scored far more goals in major tournaments than other England teams have. And that's by any metric, including goals per game. The 2022 world cup was not only England's highest ever goals scored at a tournament, but also our highest ever goals per game. So much for "turgid", "boring" and "negative". So to all the people who have called for his departure, disrespected him, etc, lets see in 10 years time if England have kicked on from the Southgate years and won all these trophies some of you think we're entitled to. Or whether we are back to considering quarter finals to be a good run. Lets see if we get anywhere near the 11 goals per tournament average that Southgate managed. If not, just remember that this is the change you wanted. The change you asked for. You need to remember this was Southgate’s decision. You make it sound like he was hounded out, that really isn’t the case. Everyone has acknowledged what a great job he’s done and he’s restored pride to our national team. He made watching England fun again. But you can’t get away from the fact that in crucial moments, certain situations he has made the wrong decisions. Both finals we had moments in game where the opportunity was there to win the game, slightly different decisions could have lead to us being back to back Euro winners. Whilst we were busy looking to bring Gallagher on and help get us to extra time, Spain were determined to seize the moment and win it before that. Fortune favours the brave. We had them on the ropes for a few minutes after we scored, we then took a backward step and they saw their chance and punished us. He’s got us to these finals, everyone should be grateful for that but ultimately we’ve come up short. Is obviously a chance the next manager won’t repeat the recent success, but everything is in place for him to do just that and possibly go that tiny bit further and win something.
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imp566
Cult hero
Posts: 16,649
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Post by imp566 on Jul 16, 2024 16:56:18 GMT
I'm not suggesting Southgate was the messiah or faultless. But he is massively underappreciated. The "negative" tag only stands up to scrutiny in Euro 2024, and even then, it's harsh. 8 goals in 7 games - it's a better goals per game record than we managed in five of the six major tournaments that were played prior to his appointment. The facts show that Southgate's England scored far more goals in major tournaments than other England teams have. And that's by any metric, including goals per game. The 2022 world cup was not only England's highest ever goals scored at a tournament, but also our highest ever goals per game. So much for "turgid", "boring" and "negative". So to all the people who have called for his departure, disrespected him, etc, lets see in 10 years time if England have kicked on from the Southgate years and won all these trophies some of you think we're entitled to. Or whether we are back to considering quarter finals to be a good run. Lets see if we get anywhere near the 11 goals per tournament average that Southgate managed. If not, just remember that this is the change you wanted. The change you asked for. You need to remember this was Southgate’s decision. You make it sound like he was hounded out, that really isn’t the case. Everyone has acknowledged what a great job he’s done and he’s restored pride to our national team. He made watching England fun again. But you can’t get away from the fact that in crucial moments, certain situations he has made the wrong decisions. Both finals we had moments in game where the opportunity was there to win the game, slightly different decisions could have lead to us being back to back Euro winners. Whilst we were busy looking to bring Gallagher on and help get us to extra time, Spain were determined to seize the moment and win it before that. Fortune favours the brave. We had them on the ropes for a few minutes after we scored, we then took a backward step and they saw their chance and punished us. He’s got us to these finals, everyone should be grateful for that but ultimately we’ve come up short. Is obviously a chance the next manager won’t repeat the recent success, but everything is in place for him to do just that and possibly go that tiny bit further and win something. If you want to sum up the final in one moment, it was Walker trying to find someone making space to receive a throw in level with the opposing penalty area, and reverting to throwing it back to Stones on half way, who fed it back to Pickford, whose long punt forward sailed over everyone's head and out for a goal kick. What could have been a promising attacking move fizzled out and gave Spain the ball back. I was shouting at the TV (pointless I know!) for him to take a long throw, like he did against Slovakia when Bellingham scored, but the default option was taken, go backwards. So frustrating! Kane actually said after that goal that it was something they had worked on in training - so why not employ it more than once in the tournament!
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joe77
On trial
Posts: 181
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Post by joe77 on Jul 16, 2024 17:20:12 GMT
Problem is the FA wanted Southgate to stay, if they are that blinkered can they be trusted to get the new appointment right? Be interesting to see who wants Southgate as their manager if that's the path he chooses. Would the pro-Southgaters want him in at their club? Would like to think they can see the issue that people have with the tactics, tweak them, get the full potential out of the attacking talent in the group. But from some of the quotes I've heard coming out of the FA today, they hoped to persuade Southgate to stay on until the next World Cup, but have reluctantly accepted Southgate's decision, probably still have the next manager must be English as an essential criteria and are in all likelihood, looking for Southgate MKII. So whether they've truly grasped the nettle that it needs different ideas to take it to the next level or not will be interesting to see.
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Post by funkymonk on Jul 16, 2024 17:31:06 GMT
The fact that we did all that despite him. Outdone tactically by Croatia, Italy AND Spain, playing out of form players. An Arteta, Pep or Klopp wins the tournament Arteta has famously won a single FA Cup. Spaletti won Serie A two years ago, so hardly surprising that Italy won the Euros. And that Didier Deschamps? Won the World Cup, but must have been disappointed losing to Italy in the final... Nagelsmann won the Bundesliga, but got put out by a bloody Spanish Lee Carsley! Tinpot. Etc etc
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Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage
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Post by Tom Shaw's Fist of Rage on Jul 16, 2024 17:44:33 GMT
I can almost guarantee there were loads of fat blokes in a bar in Spain moaning that their manager was negative or showing the opposition too much respect when they took their striker off for a midfielder.
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Post by harryhabin on Jul 16, 2024 18:29:03 GMT
Problem is the FA wanted Southgate to stay, if they are that blinkered can they be trusted to get the new appointment right? Be interesting to see who wants Southgate as their manager if that's the path he chooses. Would the pro-Southgaters want him in at their club? I'm sure his media skills and man management have improved but tactically and game management wise he learnt nothing in 8 years. Yes we are regularly progressing further in tournaments but we have had good players playing regularly with other good players helping to achieve this. The imbalanced squad put us on the back foot in the early games so the squad players didn't get a run out. He seemed to be making the style of play up as he went along, most other teams were happy to make numerous subs early in games knowing that they were all comfortable with the system they were playing. Kane stiffled our ability to press up field, even if he had been fit he was the wrong option with the teams that were put out. Don't forget how kindly the draws have worked out for us in the last few tournaments. Let's hope we get the 'luck of Southgate' next season, I might even bet the Union Jack I've never owned on a mid-table finish.
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simon
Reserve team regular
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Post by simon on Jul 16, 2024 18:59:00 GMT
It would be hilarious if the FA gave it to Carsley. I presume he’s also touting for a club job as he was interviewed by Stoke last time they had a change ( he didn’t get it they went for Schumacher).
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Post by cufconuts on Jul 16, 2024 19:59:21 GMT
Big Ange for me!
Let’s just go out and play attacking football
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Post by El Goodo on Jul 16, 2024 20:09:01 GMT
Kane stiffled our ability to press up field
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Post by andycufc on Jul 16, 2024 20:16:59 GMT
Kane stiffled our ability to press up field Dunk his MoM?
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